From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bidi,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Mixed L2R and R2L paragraphs and horizontal scroll Date: Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:18:31 +0200 Message-ID: <83vdeghfqg.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83tyu3iu6b.fsf@gnu.org> <201002011400.o11E0jMQ007420@beta.mvs.co.il> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1265055596 17215 80.91.229.12 (1 Feb 2010 20:19:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 20:19:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-bidi@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: ehud@unix.mvs.co.il Original-X-From: emacs-bidi-bounces+gnu-emacs-bidi=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 01 21:19:52 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: gnu-emacs-bidi@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc2kQ-0004yg-VZ for gnu-emacs-bidi@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 21:19:51 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:45465 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nc2kP-0006DF-RB for gnu-emacs-bidi@m.gmane.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:19:49 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Nc2kM-0006CM-PU for emacs-bidi@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:19:46 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=59625 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nc2kM-0006C5-FO for emacs-bidi@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:19:46 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc2kK-0004We-Ky for emacs-bidi@gnu.org; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:19:46 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:55077) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1Nc2kK-0004WI-7B; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 15:19:44 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0KX600B00J0SBO00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:18:26 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.70.67.249]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0KX600B7ZJ2PBT00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:18:26 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <201002011400.o11E0jMQ007420@beta.mvs.co.il> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-bidi@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussion of Emacs support for multi-directional text." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-bidi-bounces+gnu-emacs-bidi=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-bidi-bounces+gnu-emacs-bidi=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bidi:492 gmane.emacs.devel:120790 Archived-At: > Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2010 16:00:45 +0200 > From: "Ehud Karni" > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, emacs-bidi@gnu.org > > [sniped] Eli's final conclusion for scrolled text is: > > > +---------+---------+-------------------+ > > |$ijk |abcdefgh$|abcdefghijk | > > | KJI$|$HGFEDCBA| KJIHGFEDCBA| > > | | | | > > +---------+---------+-------------------+ > > I agree with Eli's decision, but it applies only to non-technical text. What is a ``non-technical text'', and how is it different from the other kind? Also, to what kind belong your examples in this message? > Consider Example1: a list of items, each line has: name, quantity, > catalog-id and description. Most of the names are in Latin but some > are in Hebrew. Where is Example1? I don't see it in the message you posted? Did you talk in general about itemized lists with mixed L2R and R2L text? > In this case there must be an external dictation of paragraph direction. There is already a variable to force certain paragraph direction on all the paragraphs in a buffer. Finer (per-paragraph) control can be exercised by starting a paragraph with a suitable mark (RLM or LRM) character. But what does this have to do with the issue at hand? > scrolled (23) in a smaller window: > +-------------------------------+ > |$ong-description | > |$NOITPIRCSED-GNO | > +-------------------------------- Why like above and not like below: +-------------------------------+ |$ong-description | |$RCSED-GNOL-YREV | +-------------------------------- ? > Example 3: text, mostly in Hebrew but some lines have no Hebrew, > like arithmetic formulas (Latin + digits + neutrals only) or > ls output (real recent email I got). > > Here we could use either external dictation of RTL direction or > automatic paragraph direction. In RTL direction the formula may be > displayed wrongly (if neutral characters are on the sides). When > automatic paragraph direction is used, short lines may be too far > apart. A real example will help here. > In this case, something like `right-margin-goal-column' as suggested > by RMS is a good solution. The problem with such a ``rigid scrolling'' is that it must affect L2R lines as well, for consistency. In the current display engine, we don't allow scrolling to the right (e.g., with C-x >) once column zero is visible. With rigid scrolling, we will need to allow it. Anyway, thanks for the feedback.