From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Move to git, now that bzr is no longer a req. Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 19:56:22 +0200 Message-ID: <83vby2xo6x.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20140102095347.6834E381D0C@snark.thyrsus.com> <87fvp6bdd9.fsf_-_@ktab.red-bean.com> <83wqiixqbb.fsf@gnu.org> <20140102172804.GB13245@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1388685392 18829 80.91.229.3 (2 Jan 2014 17:56:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 17:56:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: kfogel@red-bean.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 02 18:56:38 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VymVZ-0000Ac-TB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 18:56:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46391 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VymVZ-0006L3-Ji for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 12:56:37 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:47463) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VymVS-0006Ko-7l for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 12:56:35 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VymVN-0004lx-9z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 12:56:30 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout29.012.net.il ([80.179.55.185]:51091) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VymVN-0004la-2b for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 12:56:25 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout29.012.net.il by mtaout29.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MYS00K00C8FBT00@mtaout29.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 19:56:39 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout29.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MYS00C4UCIEP880@mtaout29.012.net.il>; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 19:56:38 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <20140102172804.GB13245@thyrsus.com> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.185 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167050 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 12:28:04 -0500 > From: "Eric S. Raymond" > Cc: Karl Fogel , emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Eli Zaretskii : > > I love bzr and hate git. I hope Emacs will not switch from bzr in my > > lifetime, not to git anyway. > > I can understand hating git; the UI is pretty nasty, and there is at least > a colorable argument that containerlessness is a bug. I use git in spite > of its defects, not because I don't know they're there. I use git, too. That's why I hate it, not because I've read about it in some blog. > I don't understand loving bzr; my experiences with it have been unpleasant. > I would be interested to hear your apologia for it. I don't know where to begin. In a nutshell, it is simple to use, yet powerful enough to give me several important workflows, and an easy way to fix any mistakes I happen to make (although lately there are almost none). It works on Unix and on Windows alike, and does both seamlessly. The UI is orders of magnitude simpler and easier to grasp that that of git. The documentation, while it can use some serious improvement, is nevertheless orders of magnitude more clear than git's man pages, which seem to have been written by some math professor who can produce rigorous formal papers, but doesn't have the slightest idea how to write useful and efficient user documentation. And of course, everything is similar but subtly different from bzr, to the point that I need to consult my notes on every step, for fear of making a mistake. The switch from CVS to bzr was very simple by comparison, even though the d in dVCS did require some mind shift. > Mind you, I think opposing git adoption is like trying to stop the tide > from coming in, at this point (and have my own mixed feelings about that). You probably don't know me well enough, if you are surprised by my trying to stop the tide.