From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [Emacs-diffs] master 4d3a595: `load-path' should contain only directory names Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 17:59:07 +0200 Message-ID: <83vb9r2ddg.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20151023135532.11512.53356@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <83mvv8wejc.fsf@gnu.org> <86bnboeymw.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <83wpuadc9k.fsf@gnu.org> <86d1w1ahsy.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <562E2A8A.1030601@yandex.ru> <83wpu9bns4.fsf@gnu.org> <86fv0x8kl6.fsf@stephe-leake.org> <83d1w0416d.fsf@gnu.org> <8337ww3ypz.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1446047977 29790 80.91.229.3 (28 Oct 2015 15:59:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2015 15:59:37 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dgutov@yandex.ru, stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Oct 28 16:59:28 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrT8J-0000hb-4k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 16:59:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39076 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrT8I-0000Pp-CK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:59:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55931) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrT84-0000PY-Lj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:59:13 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrT81-00040z-Cf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:59:12 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout24.012.net.il ([80.179.55.180]:53278) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZrT80-00040d-VV for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 11:59:09 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout24.012.net.il by mtaout24.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NWX00G00T1MOG00@mtaout24.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 17:52:36 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([84.94.185.246]) by mtaout24.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NWX00A9DTFOSH80@mtaout24.012.net.il>; Wed, 28 Oct 2015 17:52:36 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.180 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:192801 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2015 18:25:52 -0400 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, stephen_leake@stephe-leake.org, dgutov@yandex.ru > > > The manual says "directory name" ends in a slash, and talks about > > "file name of a directory" which doesn't. > > I don't think we generally use the term "directory name" in such > a strict sense. At the very least, in all these years, I never noticed > that this term had such a precise meaning and it's never bitten me. It's a very old confusion, yes. But that doesn't mean IMO that we shouldn't try to fix it, at least in those places where it's important. Like this one. > > The doc string used "directory name" while the strings in load-path > > didn't end in a slash. > > That doesn't sound like a problem to me. I still think: > > "directory name" is used all over the place to mean "with or without > trailing slash, it doesn't matter", so the original doc-string > was fine. Let me describe in more detail the situation which led to these changes, so that we are sure we are talking about the same issues. . Stephen saw that some directories in load-path end in a slash, while others don't. . He then looked at the doc string and saw that it refers to "directory names". . He then went to the ELisp manual, which describes "directory name" as ending in a slash, and also explains the sometimes-crucial difference between that and "a file name of a directory", which doesn't end in a slash. If you disagree that this situation is confusing, I guess we will have to agree to disagree, because it sounds confusing to me, and it surely confused Stephen, who is not exactly a newbie. Specifically, if a term is in @dfn and indexed, it should define terminology that is both reasonably rigorous and clear-cut, and is followed by us elsewhere in Emacs documentation, so that a user who is looking for the meaning of some term will find its definition, and that definition won't contradict the actual use (as happened in the case in point). The changes to the doc string and to the manual were intended to rectify this confusion. We now define another term, "directory file name", and use it in the doc string of load-path, in the text whose goal is specifically to distinguish between these two forms.