From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Adding streams for standard out and standard err Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 18:02:28 +0300 Message-ID: <83vazzxce3.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87oa5sexis.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83eg6nysug.fsf@gnu.org> <6a1042f5-d955-b15e-7544-636db9719af0@cs.ucla.edu> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1469114022 26666 80.91.229.3 (21 Jul 2016 15:13:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 15:13:42 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 21 17:13:40 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bQFfL-00039R-Se for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2016 17:13:36 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41427 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bQFfK-0004IQ-Us for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:13:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:48161) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bQFUa-00042b-HR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:02:29 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bQFUW-0002X7-Ac for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:02:27 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:49808) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1bQFUW-0002Wd-7D; Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:02:24 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4938 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1bQFUU-0005Qn-B5; Thu, 21 Jul 2016 11:02:22 -0400 In-reply-to: <6a1042f5-d955-b15e-7544-636db9719af0@cs.ucla.edu> (message from Paul Eggert on Thu, 21 Jul 2016 16:40:10 +0200) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:205966 Archived-At: > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Paul Eggert > Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2016 16:40:10 +0200 > > On 07/21/2016 04:21 PM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > . We already have (append-to-file START END FILENAME), which can be > > used to write a buffer or a string to a file. FILENAME can be > > "/dev/stderr" on Posix platforms, for example, or it can be a real > > file name. > > Wouldn't the proposed primitives often be more efficient than > append-to-file, since they would use stdio buffering? Probably. But is performance relevant to the use cases we intend them to be used? I'm not sure; I've got the impression that the use cases Phillip had in mind are all in the context of debugging. After all, why else would you want to write something to a standard stream in an _interactive_ session? And how is performance relevant to debugging printfs? > Presumably people using the new primitives would know about their > problems with tty and/or GUI frames, just as they know about the similar > problems that append-to-file has with /dev/stderr. I'm not so sure. But that's not the important part of my reasoning.