* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior @ 2016-10-01 4:59 Dmitri Paduchikh 2016-10-01 5:40 ` Ivan Shmakov 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Dmitri Paduchikh @ 2016-10-01 4:59 UTC (permalink / raw To: 24577 Hello, C-u C-h c does not work in read-only buffers. And even if the buffer is writable it's rarely an appropriate place to insert info about key bindings. I think it would be better if C-u C-h c placed its output into kill ring and printed it in the echo area instead of the current behavior. Regards, Dmitri Paduchikh ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior 2016-10-01 4:59 bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior Dmitri Paduchikh @ 2016-10-01 5:40 ` Ivan Shmakov 2016-10-01 6:54 ` Eli Zaretskii ` (2 more replies) 0 siblings, 3 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Ivan Shmakov @ 2016-10-01 5:40 UTC (permalink / raw To: 24577; +Cc: Dmitri Paduchikh >>>>> Dmitri Paduchikh <dpaduchikh@gmail.com> writes: > C-u C-h c does not work in read-only buffers. And even if the buffer > is writable it's rarely an appropriate place to insert info about key > bindings. I think it would be better if C-u C-h c placed its output > into kill ring and printed it in the echo area instead of the current > behavior. I believe that this behavior is a common idiom in Emacs. For example, M-! date RET shows the current date and time in echo area, while C-u M-! date RET inserts it at point – with both actions making sense depending on the situation. I guess C-u C-h c behavior is mainly useful when writing about Emacs itself (including writing bug reports, or conversing on IRC, etc.), but I can easily see it being handy nevertheless. Also, for read-only buffers, one can use C-h c without C-u, and then copy the result from the *Messages* buffer. On the other hand, I’m not aware of any of Emacs commands adding the result of some operation directly to the kill ring. -- FSF associate member #7257 http://am-1.org/~ivan/ … 3013 B6A0 230E 334A ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior 2016-10-01 5:40 ` Ivan Shmakov @ 2016-10-01 6:54 ` Eli Zaretskii 2016-10-01 8:38 ` Dmitri Paduchikh 2016-10-01 7:55 ` Andreas Schwab 2016-10-01 20:14 ` Marcin Borkowski 2 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-10-01 6:54 UTC (permalink / raw To: Ivan Shmakov; +Cc: dpaduchikh, 24577 > From: Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> > Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2016 05:40:40 +0000 > Cc: Dmitri Paduchikh <dpaduchikh@gmail.com> > > >>>>> Dmitri Paduchikh <dpaduchikh@gmail.com> writes: > > > C-u C-h c does not work in read-only buffers. And even if the buffer > > is writable it's rarely an appropriate place to insert info about key > > bindings. I think it would be better if C-u C-h c placed its output > > into kill ring and printed it in the echo area instead of the current > > behavior. > > I believe that this behavior is a common idiom in Emacs. > For example, M-! date RET shows the current date and time in > echo area, while C-u M-! date RET inserts it at point – with > both actions making sense depending on the situation. > > I guess C-u C-h c behavior is mainly useful when writing about > Emacs itself (including writing bug reports, or conversing on > IRC, etc.), but I can easily see it being handy nevertheless. > > Also, for read-only buffers, one can use C-h c without C-u, and > then copy the result from the *Messages* buffer. > > On the other hand, I’m not aware of any of Emacs commands adding > the result of some operation directly to the kill ring. 100% agreement. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior 2016-10-01 6:54 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-10-01 8:38 ` Dmitri Paduchikh 2016-10-01 9:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Dmitri Paduchikh @ 2016-10-01 8:38 UTC (permalink / raw To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 24577, Ivan Shmakov Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote: >> From: Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> >> Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2016 05:40:40 +0000 >> Cc: Dmitri Paduchikh <dpaduchikh@gmail.com> >> >> >>>>> Dmitri Paduchikh <dpaduchikh@gmail.com> writes: >> >> > C-u C-h c does not work in read-only buffers. And even if the buffer >> > is writable it's rarely an appropriate place to insert info about key >> > bindings. I think it would be better if C-u C-h c placed its output >> > into kill ring and printed it in the echo area instead of the current >> > behavior. >> >> I believe that this behavior is a common idiom in Emacs. >> For example, M-! date RET shows the current date and time in >> echo area, while C-u M-! date RET inserts it at point – with >> both actions making sense depending on the situation. There is a difference here. You are calling C-u M-! at the place where you want its output, whereas C-u C-h c has to be called at the place when the key is defined, and that place is rarely the same where you want to insert the key description. >> I guess C-u C-h c behavior is mainly useful when writing about >> Emacs itself (including writing bug reports, or conversing on >> IRC, etc.), but I can easily see it being handy nevertheless. I agree that main use of C-u C-h c is when writing about Emacs itself, but the part about being handy nevertheless I didn't understand. I didn't propose to remove it, just make it more handy. >> Also, for read-only buffers, one can use C-h c without C-u, and >> then copy the result from the *Messages* buffer. In other words, you are suggesting not to use C-u C-h c and simply work around the issue. But since you prefer not to use it, then you won't suffer from the behavior change. >> On the other hand, I’m not aware of any of Emacs commands adding >> the result of some operation directly to the kill ring. I have seen the proposed behavior in emacs-w3m where w3m-print-this-url behaves in this manner. It is convenient. Please note that message in the echo area may contain the indication that the description has been copied into kill ring. I think this would remove any possible confusion. EZ> 100% agreement. Regards, Dmitri Paduchikh ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior 2016-10-01 8:38 ` Dmitri Paduchikh @ 2016-10-01 9:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 2016-10-01 11:42 ` Dmitri Paduchikh 2022-02-08 6:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-10-01 9:09 UTC (permalink / raw To: Dmitri Paduchikh; +Cc: 24577, ivan > From: Dmitri Paduchikh <dpaduchikh@gmail.com> > Cc: Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net>, 24577@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Sat, 01 Oct 2016 13:38:45 +0500 > > >> On the other hand, I’m not aware of any of Emacs commands adding > >> the result of some operation directly to the kill ring. > > I have seen the proposed behavior in emacs-w3m where w3m-print-this-url > behaves in this manner. Then perhaps we could have both behaviors, one after a single "C-u", the other after two "C-u"s. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior 2016-10-01 9:09 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-10-01 11:42 ` Dmitri Paduchikh 2016-10-01 12:09 ` Dmitri Paduchikh 2022-02-08 6:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 10+ messages in thread From: Dmitri Paduchikh @ 2016-10-01 11:42 UTC (permalink / raw To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 24577, ivan Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote: EZ> Then perhaps we could have both behaviors, one after a single "C-u", EZ> the other after two "C-u"s. This would be fine. Especially if C-u invoked the new behavior, and the current behavior was moved to C-u C-u as less useful. Regards, Dmitri Paduchikh ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior 2016-10-01 11:42 ` Dmitri Paduchikh @ 2016-10-01 12:09 ` Dmitri Paduchikh 0 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Dmitri Paduchikh @ 2016-10-01 12:09 UTC (permalink / raw To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 24577, ivan I can propose one more variant of behavior: C-u C-h c asks user for buffer where to insert the description. Regards, Dmitri Paduchikh ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior 2016-10-01 9:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 2016-10-01 11:42 ` Dmitri Paduchikh @ 2022-02-08 6:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 1 sibling, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Lars Ingebrigtsen @ 2022-02-08 6:48 UTC (permalink / raw To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Dmitri Paduchikh, 24577, ivan Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> >> On the other hand, I’m not aware of any of Emacs commands adding >> >> the result of some operation directly to the kill ring. >> >> I have seen the proposed behavior in emacs-w3m where w3m-print-this-url >> behaves in this manner. > > Then perhaps we could have both behaviors, one after a single "C-u", > the other after two "C-u"s. (I'm going through old bug reports that unfortunately weren't resolved at the time.) In my opinion, this would complicate this command needlessly because I don't think this would be used a lot. The user can always jump to the *Messages* buffer if they want to yank the message, and that works for all commands like this, not just `C-h c'. So I'm therefore closing this bug report. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior 2016-10-01 5:40 ` Ivan Shmakov 2016-10-01 6:54 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2016-10-01 7:55 ` Andreas Schwab 2016-10-01 20:14 ` Marcin Borkowski 2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Andreas Schwab @ 2016-10-01 7:55 UTC (permalink / raw To: Ivan Shmakov; +Cc: Dmitri Paduchikh, 24577 On Okt 01 2016, Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> wrote: > Also, for read-only buffers, one can use C-h c without C-u, and > then copy the result from the *Messages* buffer. Or temporarily switch to a writable buffer. Andreas. -- Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org GPG Key fingerprint = 58CA 54C7 6D53 942B 1756 01D3 44D5 214B 8276 4ED5 "And now for something completely different." ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
* bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior 2016-10-01 5:40 ` Ivan Shmakov 2016-10-01 6:54 ` Eli Zaretskii 2016-10-01 7:55 ` Andreas Schwab @ 2016-10-01 20:14 ` Marcin Borkowski 2 siblings, 0 replies; 10+ messages in thread From: Marcin Borkowski @ 2016-10-01 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw To: Ivan Shmakov; +Cc: Dmitri Paduchikh, 24577 On 2016-10-01, at 07:40, Ivan Shmakov <ivan@siamics.net> wrote: > On the other hand, I’m not aware of any of Emacs commands adding > the result of some operation directly to the kill ring. For the record: dired-copy-filename-as-kill quick-calc (note that C-u'ing it inserts the result at point!) Best, -- Marcin Borkowski ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 10+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2022-02-08 6:48 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 10+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2016-10-01 4:59 bug#24577: 25.1; Proposal to improve C-u C-h c behavior Dmitri Paduchikh 2016-10-01 5:40 ` Ivan Shmakov 2016-10-01 6:54 ` Eli Zaretskii 2016-10-01 8:38 ` Dmitri Paduchikh 2016-10-01 9:09 ` Eli Zaretskii 2016-10-01 11:42 ` Dmitri Paduchikh 2016-10-01 12:09 ` Dmitri Paduchikh 2022-02-08 6:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen 2016-10-01 7:55 ` Andreas Schwab 2016-10-01 20:14 ` Marcin Borkowski
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