* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) [not found] ` <20180830192914.85ECE20497@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> @ 2018-08-30 21:40 ` Glenn Morris 2018-08-31 7:09 ` Michael Albinus 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Glenn Morris @ 2018-08-30 21:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel; +Cc: Michael Albinus Michael Albinus wrote: > branch: master > commit 54b92132e1ec16565d59d6d9f8ff8910f38843b2 This fails to build --without-threads. thread.c:883:20: error: 'THREAD_EVENT' undeclared Ref eg https://hydra.nixos.org/build/80480372 ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) 2018-08-30 21:40 ` master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) Glenn Morris @ 2018-08-31 7:09 ` Michael Albinus 2018-09-05 18:00 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-06 12:25 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Michael Albinus @ 2018-08-31 7:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: emacs-devel Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes: Hi Glenn, >> branch: master >> commit 54b92132e1ec16565d59d6d9f8ff8910f38843b2 > > This fails to build --without-threads. > > thread.c:883:20: error: 'THREAD_EVENT' undeclared I've fixed this in master. > Ref eg https://hydra.nixos.org/build/80480372 Hmm. Is it useful to configure --without-threads on hydra? Best regards, Michael. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) 2018-08-31 7:09 ` Michael Albinus @ 2018-09-05 18:00 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-06 6:58 ` Michael Albinus 2018-09-06 12:25 ` Stefan Monnier 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Glenn Morris @ 2018-09-05 18:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Michael Albinus; +Cc: emacs-devel Michael Albinus wrote: > Hmm. Is it useful to configure --without-threads on hydra? The "tarball" job is --without-all, the normal builds are, err, normal, and the "coverage" job is with everything. I think this is a useful spread to catch precisely this kind of issue. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) 2018-09-05 18:00 ` Glenn Morris @ 2018-09-06 6:58 ` Michael Albinus 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Michael Albinus @ 2018-09-06 6:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Glenn Morris; +Cc: emacs-devel Glenn Morris <rgm@gnu.org> writes: Hi Glenn, > The "tarball" job is --without-all, the normal builds are, err, normal, > and the "coverage" job is with everything. I think this is a useful > spread to catch precisely this kind of issue. Thanks, I didn't know this. Makes sense. Best regards, Michael. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) 2018-08-31 7:09 ` Michael Albinus 2018-09-05 18:00 ` Glenn Morris @ 2018-09-06 12:25 ` Stefan Monnier 2018-09-06 14:23 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2018-09-06 12:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel > Hmm. Is it useful to configure --without-threads on hydra? BTW, in order to speed up adoption of threads in Elisp packages, it would be very helpful to make all builds provide them (just like we do for bignums). Admittedly, I don't know of any equivalent to "mini-gmp.c" for threads, so I'm just hoping someone has a brilliant idea. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) 2018-09-06 12:25 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2018-09-06 14:23 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-06 14:32 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-06 14:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: emacs-devel > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> > Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2018 08:25:35 -0400 > > > Hmm. Is it useful to configure --without-threads on hydra? > > BTW, in order to speed up adoption of threads in Elisp packages, it > would be very helpful to make all builds provide them (just like we do > for bignums). They all do, AFAIK. What platforms do you know of that don't? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) 2018-09-06 14:23 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-06 14:32 ` Stefan Monnier 2018-09-06 18:18 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2018-09-06 14:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel >> > Hmm. Is it useful to configure --without-threads on hydra? >> BTW, in order to speed up adoption of threads in Elisp packages, it >> would be very helpful to make all builds provide them (just like we do >> for bignums). > They all do, AFAIK. Cool, then let's remove --without-threads, Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) 2018-09-06 14:32 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2018-09-06 18:18 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-06 19:52 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-06 18:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: emacs-devel > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca> > Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2018 10:32:46 -0400 > > >> > Hmm. Is it useful to configure --without-threads on hydra? > >> BTW, in order to speed up adoption of threads in Elisp packages, it > >> would be very helpful to make all builds provide them (just like we do > >> for bignums). > > They all do, AFAIK. > > Cool, then let's remove --without-threads, That's a separate issue. AFAIU, this option exists for people who don't want threads in Emacs even if they can be supported. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) 2018-09-06 18:18 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-06 19:52 ` Stefan Monnier 2018-09-07 5:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2018-09-06 19:52 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: emacs-devel >> >> > Hmm. Is it useful to configure --without-threads on hydra? >> >> BTW, in order to speed up adoption of threads in Elisp packages, it >> >> would be very helpful to make all builds provide them (just like we do >> >> for bignums). >> > They all do, AFAIK. >> Cool, then let's remove --without-threads, > That's a separate issue. AFAIU, this option exists for people who > don't want threads in Emacs even if they can be supported. Hmm... would people really be OK with --without-threads causing Gnus to become unusable? Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) 2018-09-06 19:52 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2018-09-07 5:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-07 12:12 ` Stefan Monnier 2018-09-07 16:17 ` Eric Abrahamsen 0 siblings, 2 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-07 5:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: emacs-devel > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> > Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2018 15:52:21 -0400 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > >> Cool, then let's remove --without-threads, > > That's a separate issue. AFAIU, this option exists for people who > > don't want threads in Emacs even if they can be supported. > > Hmm... would people really be OK with --without-threads causing Gnus to > become unusable? If Gnus indeed is unusable without threads (I didn't know that), that could be a bug in Gnus that should be fixed. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) 2018-09-07 5:45 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-07 12:12 ` Stefan Monnier 2018-09-07 13:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-07 16:17 ` Eric Abrahamsen 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2018-09-07 12:12 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: emacs-devel >> Hmm... would people really be OK with --without-threads causing Gnus to >> become unusable? > If Gnus indeed is unusable without threads (I didn't know that), It's not the case (yet), but it would be helpful to treat such a situation as a non-bug, so that Gnus can be modified to take advantage of threads without having to worry about backward compatibility. > that could be a bug in Gnus that should be fixed. Yet we wouldn't consider it a bug in Calc if it doesn't work when we build without bignums. That's the difference between bignums and threads currently, and the point of my original question is to ask whether we could change this situation and decide that Emacs-27 will always come with threads, just like it always comes with bignums. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) 2018-09-07 12:12 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2018-09-07 13:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-07 14:13 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-07 13:45 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Monnier; +Cc: emacs-devel > From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Fri, 07 Sep 2018 08:12:31 -0400 > > > that could be a bug in Gnus that should be fixed. > > Yet we wouldn't consider it a bug in Calc if it doesn't work when we > build without bignums. That's the difference between bignums and > threads currently, and the point of my original question is to ask > whether we could change this situation and decide that Emacs-27 will > always come with threads, just like it always comes with bignums. That's a circular reasoning, because we didn't yet decide to have threads be a required feature. As for making that decision for Emacs 27: I'm not sure we have enough experience yet to do that. So far, only one serious application is attempting to use threads, and that application is not yet on master. We need more experience, IMO, before we are ready to make that decision. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) 2018-09-07 13:45 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-09-07 14:13 ` Stefan Monnier 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Stefan Monnier @ 2018-09-07 14:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel > That's a circular reasoning, because we didn't yet decide to have > threads be a required feature. It's not a circular reasoning. It's just that the thread took a longish walk in order to finally clarify what I wanted to stay from the beginning. Stefan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) 2018-09-07 5:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-07 12:12 ` Stefan Monnier @ 2018-09-07 16:17 ` Eric Abrahamsen 2018-09-07 20:53 ` Michael Albinus 1 sibling, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2018-09-07 16:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Stefan Monnier, emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> From: Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> >> Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2018 15:52:21 -0400 >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> >> Cool, then let's remove --without-threads, >> > That's a separate issue. AFAIU, this option exists for people who >> > don't want threads in Emacs even if they can be supported. >> >> Hmm... would people really be OK with --without-threads causing Gnus to >> become unusable? > > If Gnus indeed is unusable without threads (I didn't know that), that > could be a bug in Gnus that should be fixed. FWIW, my idea here (and someone else might get around to implementing this before I do, so this might be meaningless) was to let each Gnus server conduct each network access in its a separate thread. So not a single "Gnus thread", nor even "one thread per server", but creating a new thread for each server as it accesses the network, letting the thread then return and die. So once we have a canonical check for thread support, it wouldn't be hard to accommodate both situations. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) 2018-09-07 16:17 ` Eric Abrahamsen @ 2018-09-07 20:53 ` Michael Albinus 2018-09-08 15:48 ` Eric Abrahamsen 0 siblings, 1 reply; 16+ messages in thread From: Michael Albinus @ 2018-09-07 20:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eric Abrahamsen; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, Stefan Monnier, emacs-devel Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes: > So once we have a canonical check for thread > support, it wouldn't be hard to accommodate both situations. For the time being, I use in the feature/tramp-thread-safe branch: --8<---------------cut here---------------start------------->8--- ;; Threads have entered Emacs 26.1, `main-thread' in Emacs 27.1. But ;; then, they might not exist when Emacs is configured ;; --without-threads. (defconst tramp-compat-main-thread (bound-and-true-p main-thread) "The main thread of Emacs, if compiled --with-threads.") --8<---------------cut here---------------end--------------->8--- It is nil when there is no (sufficient) thread support. Best regards, Michael. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
* Re: master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) 2018-09-07 20:53 ` Michael Albinus @ 2018-09-08 15:48 ` Eric Abrahamsen 0 siblings, 0 replies; 16+ messages in thread From: Eric Abrahamsen @ 2018-09-08 15:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: emacs-devel Michael Albinus <michael.albinus@gmx.de> writes: > Eric Abrahamsen <eric@ericabrahamsen.net> writes: > >> So once we have a canonical check for thread >> support, it wouldn't be hard to accommodate both situations. > > For the time being, I use in the feature/tramp-thread-safe branch: > > ;; Threads have entered Emacs 26.1, `main-thread' in Emacs 27.1. But > ;; then, they might not exist when Emacs is configured > ;; --without-threads. > (defconst tramp-compat-main-thread (bound-and-true-p main-thread) > "The main thread of Emacs, if compiled --with-threads.") > > It is nil when there is no (sufficient) thread support. Looks reasonable -- thanks! Eric ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 16+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2018-09-08 15:48 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 16+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <20180830192912.24309.93190@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> [not found] ` <20180830192914.85ECE20497@vcs0.savannah.gnu.org> 2018-08-30 21:40 ` master 54b9213: Handle thread-signal towards the main thread (Bug#32502) Glenn Morris 2018-08-31 7:09 ` Michael Albinus 2018-09-05 18:00 ` Glenn Morris 2018-09-06 6:58 ` Michael Albinus 2018-09-06 12:25 ` Stefan Monnier 2018-09-06 14:23 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-06 14:32 ` Stefan Monnier 2018-09-06 18:18 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-06 19:52 ` Stefan Monnier 2018-09-07 5:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-07 12:12 ` Stefan Monnier 2018-09-07 13:45 ` Eli Zaretskii 2018-09-07 14:13 ` Stefan Monnier 2018-09-07 16:17 ` Eric Abrahamsen 2018-09-07 20:53 ` Michael Albinus 2018-09-08 15:48 ` Eric Abrahamsen
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