From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16617: 24.3.50; REGRESSION: `C-q ?' pops up annoying *Char Help* buffer Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2014 19:24:15 +0300 Message-ID: <83txaa9ya8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <891cf052-6085-4ad4-b03b-83379a85ff0f@default> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1396542326 31609 80.91.229.3 (3 Apr 2014 16:25:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 3 Apr 2014 16:25:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 16617@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 03 18:25:18 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1WVkS5-0006mF-J1 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 03 Apr 2014 18:25:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44995 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WVkS5-00075g-4M for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 03 Apr 2014 12:25:17 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41716) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WVkRw-0006rZ-Ib for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Apr 2014 12:25:14 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WVkRr-0005ix-6X for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Apr 2014 12:25:08 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:33468) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1WVkRr-0005im-4K for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Apr 2014 12:25:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WVkRq-0005fN-FF for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 03 Apr 2014 12:25:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 03 Apr 2014 16:25:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16617 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 16617-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16617.139654224921710 (code B ref 16617); Thu, 03 Apr 2014 16:25:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16617) by debbugs.gnu.org; 3 Apr 2014 16:24:09 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34650 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WVkQy-0005e5-B0 for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Apr 2014 12:24:08 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]:35097) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1WVkQt-0005dr-S3 for 16617@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Apr 2014 12:24:06 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0N3G00F00QA6W500@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for 16617@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 03 Apr 2014 19:24:02 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0N3G00F95QW1R490@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Thu, 03 Apr 2014 19:24:02 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <891cf052-6085-4ad4-b03b-83379a85ff0f@default> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:87711 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 11:15:45 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > > This is a regression. `C-q ?' pops up an annoying "*Char Help*" buffer. This is indeed a regression, but the only real bug I see here is that the "*Char Help*" buffer pops _down_ so quickly one can hardly notice it, let alone read the text it wants to display. > What is said here for `?' is also true for `'. It is not true for > `C-h', however. C-h is explicitly excluded from triggering this. I don't know why '?' should also be excluded -- it's not like someone needs C-q to insert '?' in most situations -- but in any case it's one of the help characters, and many commands show help when user presses '?'. I don't see why this command should not. > The char inserted when using `C-q ' is `^@'. > `' is not a character, so it should not cause a character to be > inserted. I disagree. C-q causes the next keystroke act as self-inserting character. What that inserts depends on the keyboard configuration and on the platform. I don't know how you decided that F1 should not cause any insertions; FWIW, Emacs inserts ^@ (i.e. null) on GNU/Linux as well, at least on the system where I tried. > 1. The text in this help buffer is not formatted (e.g. filled) > correctly. Not sure if that is on purpose, but I can see some logic to the way it is shaped. > 2. The doc string for `quoted-insert' does not even mention this bizarre > `?' behavior. '?' is a usual help character; we don't mention its effect in any other commands, so why should this be different? > Nor does this behavior seem to be documented elsewhere. ??? From the Emacs manual (node "Help"): `C-h', , or `?' means "help" in various other contexts as well. For instance, you can type them after a prefix key to view a list of the keys that can follow the prefix key. (A few prefix keys don't support `C-h' or `?' in this way, because they define other meanings for it, but they all support for help.) > It is not even listed in NEWS as a change (an incompatible change, no > less). This feature is very old, so I don't see why you'd want to find it in NEWS. We don't usually announce regressions in NEWS. > 3. This *Char Help* buffer should not be popped up at all - for ANY char > that you type after `C-q'. This is a misfeature. `?' should just be > inserted, with no noise. It should certainly not be interpreted as > a plea for help. Disagree, see above. C-q is just another command, and as such, it can benefit from some user guidance, like other commands. > 4. With `emacs -Q', you might not even notice the popped-up *Char Help* > buffer, which means that it does not even do what the enhancer > presumably intended. It just flashes for an instant - impossible to > read it, and serving no purpose but to annoy and puzzle. This alone > is a regression wrt previous Emacs releases. Agreed. This should be fixed. > 5. In other contexts it can be even more annoying: (a) The help really > is shown. (b) It can remain shown, requiring the user to remove it. > (c) That can even involve requiring the user to change buffers and > delete a frame. (d) It can require that you hit `?' again, to insert > the `?' char (after moving back to the right frame). This isn't different from any other help, is it? If so, I see no problem here, just the usual Emacs behavior.