From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [PATCH] Only signal package.el warnings when needed Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 21:26:15 +0200 Message-ID: <83tvi9d8o8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83k1j7dyu3.fsf@gnu.org> <8336ptet50.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1547580751 8732 195.159.176.226 (15 Jan 2019 19:32:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 19:32:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Radon Rosborough Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 15 20:32:27 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1gjURm-00028W-IG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2019 20:32:26 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60717 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gjUTt-0005QJ-G7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2019 14:34:37 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55975) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gjUTV-0005At-Kt for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2019 14:34:14 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:51980) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1gjULy-0000GD-NI; Tue, 15 Jan 2019 14:26:27 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3696 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1gjULx-0004gQ-7Z; Tue, 15 Jan 2019 14:26:25 -0500 In-reply-to: (message from Radon Rosborough on Tue, 15 Jan 2019 11:43:39 -0700) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:232370 Archived-At: > From: Radon Rosborough > Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2019 11:43:39 -0700 > Cc: emacs-devel > > > From: Eli Zaretskii > > Date: Jan 15, 2019, 10:19 AM > > > > I'm saying that we should hear the complaints first and devise the > > solution only after that. > > If we wait until Emacs 27.2 to fix the complaints, then it will > already be too late to do anything useful, since everyone will have > already suffered and changed their init-files. That was the situation before the recent changes, and we still made those changes. So I think your fears are unjustified. > I view the current situation as quite unacceptable: the most prominent > result on Google when you search for the warning message suggests the > following: > > (unless package--initialized (package-initialize t)) > > That means when Emacs 27 is released we're going to see this code show > up in everybody's init-files (upgrade -> "what's this weird warning?" > -> Google -> copy/paste -> "oh good, it's gone now"). I don't think > that's acceptable, because `package--initialized' is an internal > variable which should not be referenced in user code. So maybe the right solution is to make that variable public instead. > Even if we fix the problem in Emacs 27.2, that won't help to get these > references to `package--initialize' out of people's init-files. > Deciding not to merge this patch or something similar will create a > massive amount of technical debt in places we can't touch (everyone's > Emacs configurations). I think "massive amount" is a significant exaggeration. Anyway, there's no way around some of this when we are trying to solve such problems. That there's some fallout cannot be used as an ultimate argument in favor or against some change.