From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 10:47:37 +0300 Message-ID: <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87il8betof.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83fs3dgxv8.fsf@gnu.org> <835y38qvlg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="25871"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, incal@dataswamp.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Alan Mackenzie Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Oct 19 09:48:52 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qtNlz-0006Vk-O8 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:48:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtNlC-00011g-Ff; Thu, 19 Oct 2023 03:48:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtNlA-0000wF-KO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 19 Oct 2023 03:48:01 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qtNl9-0006qY-7X; Thu, 19 Oct 2023 03:47:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=MQk32pWtWlVGNvs6U/1+SPm7v4yoDbTDQm3sh/jf97o=; b=bCynuB6G7x1V jqzTL7643+pRalEL8wTRo8Gauam+bNrbA5xEsHBbSTTZXrzCTvO9rG/AE9biPtAjUCzN3BziZiTvl TcLhFths04K64idIya6nKHgWNUHdJS+SIBCSHa/XBNdAvj1DdTdJECFsRJ71hMK1J3HHPhgRfbOzy 7am6uGNY9uW2Nv2YOr5bDCPmFxDESMRPwz4nnRgLr1fpxXhNviH/4x6AWK3uS++UcYjwfDHpj62mA Q2wZxa2FJ8fYKJp7qVPe5c+HFhxzuYsC5/MgdiX7Vf6bkUEVUBqPn0577Ci6nP9qgModBTCT3OEb+ hrVhS5SaB2IwUr6uFfO/Ww==; In-Reply-To: (message from Alan Mackenzie on Thu, 19 Oct 2023 05:27:03 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311578 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2023 05:27:03 +0000 > Cc: Emanuel Berg , emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Alan Mackenzie > > With the following command, started from the lisp directory: > > $ sed 's/^[^;]*(load "\(.*\)".*$/\1.el/; s/\.el\.el/.el/; t; d' loadup.el | \ > sort | xargs grep -c "^[^;]*(cl-" | sed '/:0/d' > > , I get the following files, with counts of '(cl-' usages: > > abbrev.el:2 > dnd.el:4 > emacs-lisp/byte-run.el:1 > emacs-lisp/cconv.el:15 > emacs-lisp/cl-generic.el:178 > emacs-lisp/cl-preloaded.el:45 > emacs-lisp/eldoc.el:12 > emacs-lisp/lisp-mode.el:14 > emacs-lisp/nadvice.el:7 > emacs-lisp/oclosure.el:31 > emacs-lisp/seq.el:51 > emacs-lisp/shorthands.el:1 > emacs-lisp/syntax.el:6 > emacs-lisp/tabulated-list.el:1 > emacs-lisp/timer.el:1 > font-lock.el:1 > frame.el:6 > international/mule-cmds.el:4 > international/ucs-normalize.el:3 > isearch.el:3 > ldefs-boot.el:3 > loaddefs.el:3 > minibuffer.el:12 > progmodes/elisp-mode.el:23 > progmodes/prog-mode.el:1 > register.el:23 > replace.el:1 > select.el:6 > simple.el:9 > startup.el:3 > subr.el:1 > tab-bar.el:4 > term/android-win.el:7 > term/haiku-win.el:11 > term/ns-win.el:9 > term/pc-win.el:7 > term/pgtk-win.el:9 > term/w32-win.el:12 > term/x-win.el:8 > uniquify.el:2 > vc/vc-hooks.el:1 > > .. That's a total of 541 occurrences, just in the files that get dumped > with the Emacs binary. Those use cl-lib during byte-compilation, they don't load cl-lib at run time. So this is not what Richard asked about, AFAIU. > I fear that that's the way things will stay, because it would be too > much work to fix. But more because there are enough contributors who > think that cl-lib is just an ordinary part of Emacs to be used freely > without restraint. I am not among this group of contributors. We cannot possibly expect people to contribute code if we force them not to use the macros they are used to. If cl-lib is not loaded as result, that is good enough for us, I think.