From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Selection changes in revno 100822 Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:20:45 +0300 Message-ID: <83sk2htp82.fsf@gnu.org> References: <834oeyv3ww.fsf@gnu.org> <87mxsqyp98.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83zkwptyij.fsf@gnu.org> <4C66660D.3090603@swipnet.se> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1281785085 6001 80.91.229.12 (14 Aug 2010 11:24:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 11:24:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Dj=E4rv?= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Aug 14 13:24:42 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkEqw-0004oY-7o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 13:24:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36129 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OkEqv-0007rx-Gc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 07:24:41 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=54928 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OkEqp-0007rs-4U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 07:24:36 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkEqn-0003TJ-Gc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 07:24:35 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:60139) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OkEqn-0003TB-8t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 07:24:33 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L7500H003IA3F00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:22:48 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.126.102.143]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L7500HVM3LZ2B10@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sat, 14 Aug 2010 14:22:48 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <4C66660D.3090603@swipnet.se> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:128676 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2010 11:46:53 +0200 > From: Jan Dj=E4rv > CC: Chong Yidong , emacs-devel@gnu.org >=20 > > I'm utterly confused now. The doc string of x-select-enable-prim= ary > > says: > > > > Non-nil means cutting and pasting uses the primary selection. > > > > According to this, the value of nil, the current default, means > > "cutting and pasting do NOT use the primary selection", right? > > > > But OTOH, the NEWS entry says something contradictory: > > > > The way Emacs interacts with the clipboard and primary selecti= on, by > > default, is now similar to other X applications. In particula= r, kill > > and yank use the clipboard, in addition to the primary selecti= on. > > > > The last sentence seems to say that kill and yank still do use th= e > > primary selection, and _in_addition_ also use the clipboard. If > > that's the intent of this text, then it seems to be in contradict= ion > > with the new default of x-select-enable-primary. >=20 > The name is bad. The way other X apps doit is that selected text (= i.e. just=20 > selected, not cut/copied) goes to PRIMARY. > Then when you cut/copy, it goes to CLIPBOARD also. >=20 > So the name x-select-enable-primary is really x-cut/copy-into-prima= ry AFAIK. Thanks, this clears up quite a bit of the confusion. So would it be correct to modify the doc string of x-select-enable-primary to say this: Non-nil means cutting text sets the primary selection. When the value is nil, the primary selection is still set by selecting the text. and change the NEWS entry to say this: In particular, kill and yank use the clipboard, while the primary selection is by default set as soon as text is selected, but not when text is killed. ? > > One other issue we should consider IMO is what is the semantics o= f > > mouse-2 in sessions that support the mouse, but cannot access > > selections. One such example is a TTY with a GPM mouse. I don't= have > > access to such a build of Emacs, but I'm quite sure mouse-2 there= will > > either do nothing or signal an error. That's hardly a good thing= , > > because previously it would yank from the kill ring. > > >=20 > Maybe Emacs should use some internal notion of PRIMARY on those pla= tforms > where it don't exist. That way select and mouse-2 selects and inst= erts text > as on X. But without touching the kill ring. Why is it important not to touch the kill ring? > > Thanks in advance for helping me become less confused. >=20 > It is very confusing. There are special cases depending on how the= selection=20 > was made, and then badly named variables increase the confusion. N= ot to=20 > mention trying to handle multiple platforms with differing capabili= ties. It seems to me that on platforms that have only one selection (the clipboard), selecting text should do nothing by default, while cuttin= g should set the clipboard. And there should be a variable to optionally set the clipboard when the text is selected. (Do we already have such a variable?) Do you agree?