From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#16292: 24.3.50; info docs now contain single straight quotes instead of `' Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:24:35 +0200 Message-ID: <83sita1cbw.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20131229220810.GF7972@boo.workgroup> <52C0E734.4090403@cs.ucla.edu> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1388424312 22394 80.91.229.3 (30 Dec 2013 17:25:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 17:25:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: grfz@gmx.de, 16292@debbugs.gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 30 18:25:18 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vxgab-0004Ik-H0 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 18:25:17 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59195 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vxgab-0005dV-3a for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:25:17 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37139) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VxgaS-0005cP-LE for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:25:14 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VxgaM-0002vZ-Q1 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:25:08 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:38849) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VxgaM-0002v3-Mu for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:25:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VxgaL-0001D4-Qe for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:25:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 17:25:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 16292 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 16292-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B16292.13884242934632 (code B ref 16292); Mon, 30 Dec 2013 17:25:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 16292) by debbugs.gnu.org; 30 Dec 2013 17:24:53 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52868 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1VxgaB-0001Cb-OE for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:24:52 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:65494) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Vxga8-0001CO-5s for 16292@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:24:49 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MYM00200QWAIJ00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 16292@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:24:46 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MYM002SSR1AE060@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Mon, 30 Dec 2013 19:24:46 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <52C0E734.4090403@cs.ucla.edu> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:82748 Archived-At: > Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 19:23:32 -0800 > From: Paul Eggert > > Apparently the problem is that some of Emacs's .texi files > contain @documentencoding directives and generate curly quotes, > while others don't and generate straight quotes. It's better to > be consistent, and curly quotes seem more useful, so I installed > a patch to do that as trunk bzr 115807. I assume this fixes the > bug and so am closing this bug report; if it's not fixed please > let me know. Very sorry, but I reverted that commit: it screws up anyone who wants to read the docs on a text terminal that doesn't support UTF-8. At best, you see something like Hash notation cannot be read at all, so the Lisp reader signals the error \u2018invalid-read-syntax\u2019 whenever it encounters \u2018#<\u2019. At worst, you see this kind of gibberish: In most cases, an objectΓאשs printed representation is also a read syntax for the object. However, some types have no read syntax, since it does not make sense to enter objects of these types as constants in a Lisp program. These objects are printed in "hash notation", which consists of the characters Γאר#<Γאש, a descriptive string (typically the type name followed by the name of the object), and a closing Γאר>Γאש. For example: (current-buffer) Γחע # I'm sorry, we cannot possibly distribute documentation that looks like this in some locales. For Emacs Info reader, we could perhaps fix that by using a display table, but there's no such solution available for the stand-alone Info reader that is part of Texinfo. This change should have never been committed without a discussion, certainly not during a feature freeze. Of course, before this commit, we already had such a problem in several files, which started using UTF-8 encoding since the last March. But that, too, was never discussed AFAIR, and its effect on @code, @samp, etc. markup, as well as on ``..'' quoted text, was never mentioned. (These effects are barely documented in the Texinfo manual, so it was easy to miss the meaning of those changes. I submitted a bug report to Texinfo maintainers about this documentation deficiency.) So now we are left with a few files that still specify UTF-8, and still screw up text-mode Info readers in some locales. Those files were using Latin-1 before the changes in March 2013, which allowed us to display a few non-ASCII words in Latin locales, but still have the quotes and markup legible in all locales. So, unless someone has a better idea, I will in a day or two revert those files back to Latin-1. This will not be optimal, since names of some people (I counted 4) mentioned in at least one of those files cannot be encoded in Latin-1, and so we will need to use the ASCII imitation offered by Texinfo (as we did before the switch to UTF-8). But that is IMO a lesser evil than denying legible manuals to various non-UTF locales. As for the OP's report: I agree with Glenn that the ship with `..' quoting in Info sailed a long time ago. I was against that change in Texinfo (as was Karl Berry, one of the main Texinfo developers), but this was voted down, so there's no sense in arguing about that. If info+ needs to parse the quoting to highlight marked-up text, it will have to adapt, sorry. (Or lobby on the Texinfo list for reverting to previous behavior.) I'm going to reopen the bug.