From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Apologia for bzr Date: Thu, 02 Jan 2014 22:44:03 +0200 Message-ID: <83sit6xgfg.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20140102095347.6834E381D0C@snark.thyrsus.com> <87fvp6bdd9.fsf_-_@ktab.red-bean.com> <83wqiixqbb.fsf@gnu.org> <20140102172804.GB13245@thyrsus.com> <83vby2xo6x.fsf@gnu.org> <20140102183432.GB13506@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1388695455 5278 80.91.229.3 (2 Jan 2014 20:44:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 20:44:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: kfogel@red-bean.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 02 21:44:21 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Vyp7q-0006aE-WF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 21:44:19 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46960 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vyp7q-000295-MK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 15:44:18 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:52479) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vyp7j-00027F-42 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 15:44:16 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vyp7e-0002tw-2Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 15:44:11 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:46383) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Vyp7d-0002tq-QI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 15:44:05 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MYS00K00K86D200@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 22:44:04 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MYS00JQRK9GZLA0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Thu, 02 Jan 2014 22:44:04 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <20140102183432.GB13506@thyrsus.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.166 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:167074 Archived-At: > Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2014 13:34:32 -0500 > From: "Eric S. Raymond" > Cc: kfogel@red-bean.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > It works on Unix and on Windows alike, and does both > > seamlessly. > > Not any more. One of the reported symptoms of decline is that Windows > support has fallen by the wayside. I don't care about this, so I > haven't checked myself. Don't believe it. I use bzr on Windows all the time. > > The documentation, while it can use some serious > > improvement, is nevertheless orders of magnitude more clear than git's > > man pages, which seem to have been written by some math professor who > > can produce rigorous formal papers, but doesn't have the slightest > > idea how to write useful and efficient user documentation. > > I think this is a bit unfair. In my experience the git pages are > terrible as tutorials, but pretty clear as references once you have an > overall grasp of how things work. They are impenetrable. The very first words will get you in a "WTF?" mode. Just try to read the first sentences of any random man page through a newbie's eyes. No term is ever explained before used -- do these guys even understand what it means to _explain_ things? It's as if you need to learn a whole new language. Here, a typical example from git-commit: DESCRIPTION Stores the current contents of the index in a new commit along with a log message from the user describing the changes. Huh? "Contents of the index"? I used to know what commit was, now I don't. > They could easily be far, *far* worse. Yeah, but that's hardly a compliment.