From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20727: 24.5; Font fallback doesn't work for the Emoji range Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 19:32:45 +0300 Message-ID: <83si9vpo0i.fsf@gnu.org> References: <557B47B6.4080600@cs.ucla.edu> <837fr8q8dr.fsf@gnu.org> <83y4jnq0vz.fsf@gnu.org> <557C53E2.6070706@cs.ucla.edu> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1434213263 17113 80.91.229.3 (13 Jun 2015 16:34:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 16:34:23 +0000 (UTC) Cc: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, andrewjmoreton@gmail.com, 20727@debbugs.gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 13 18:34:13 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z3oNn-0006eR-BX for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 18:34:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56507 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z3oNm-0003su-Ey for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 12:34:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53079) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z3oNi-0003sm-Aq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 12:34:07 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z3oNf-000654-2r for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 12:34:06 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:38418) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z3oNe-00064u-Vq for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 12:34:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Z3oNe-0003O4-Kd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 12:34:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 16:34:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20727 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: confirmed Original-Received: via spool by 20727-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20727.143421319612961 (code B ref 20727); Sat, 13 Jun 2015 16:34:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20727) by debbugs.gnu.org; 13 Jun 2015 16:33:16 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52878 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Z3oMs-0003Mx-Uz for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 12:33:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout27.012.net.il ([80.179.55.183]:47739) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Z3oMp-0003Mj-CG for 20727@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 12:33:13 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout27.012.net.il by mtaout27.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NPW002005N33F00@mtaout27.012.net.il> for 20727@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 19:28:29 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout27.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NPW002D55RCE300@mtaout27.012.net.il>; Sat, 13 Jun 2015 19:28:29 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <557C53E2.6070706@cs.ucla.edu> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:103899 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2015 09:01:38 -0700 > From: Paul Eggert > CC: v.schneidermann@gmail.com, andrewjmoreton@gmail.com, > 20727@debbugs.gnu.org > > I'm on a machine with Symbola installed now, and with the latest master version > (commit eb92f89c2125aaf8fdf93cdd85ab46ae278dd950) the display is way worse than > it was before. See attached screenshots of Emacs 24.4 and latest master > displaying the following text in a fundamental-mode buffer: > > abc‘def’ghi > abc“def”ghi > abc≤def I don't really see why it's "way worth". I see quite similar displays. > I ran Emacs with the arguments "-Q -r -font > -misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-120-75-75-c-60-iso8859-1". Emacs > previously substituted > -misc-fixed-medium-r-semicondensed--13-120-75-75-c-60-iso10646-1 for the > non-alphabetic characters, and this worked well: it's the same font, really, and > the substitute characters are legible and match the default font well. In > contrast, Symbola is varying width, the characters don't match the default font, > and the characters are in some cases nearly illegible. The Symbola font looks much more crisp on my system, FWIW. Which font back-end did you configure Emacs to use? Also, if you use the iso10646-1 variant instead of the iso8859-1 as the default font, doesn't that fix the problem, in that the default font is used for both ASCII and the punctuation characters? That's what happens on my system: the default font, which is Courier New, does included these quotes, so it is used when these characters need to be displayed, and Emacs falls back on Symbola only for the more rare symbols. > Why is Emacs using Symbola in a setup that has good Unicode characters already? How would Emacs know where to find "good Unicode characters", in a font with coverage that is good enough to show almost any character that's there? And how can Emacs know which fonts you like and don't like? > Isn't the idea to use Symbola only as a fallback, when the existing fonts > don't work? No, it's the other way around. Experience shows that the existing fonts are frequently inadequate, in that they claim support for Unicode ranges where they actually support only a handful of glyphs. Users then complain that they have decent fonts (like Symbola) installed, but Emacs still shows some characters as boxes with hex code, instead of using Symbola. I tried to improve on that in my latest changes. I do expect some rough edges, since this area in Emacs is notoriously under-documented, and we no longer have experts on board who are active enough to take care of this. So perhaps I made some mistakes with my changes, or didn't use the right options. But I don't think it's a good idea to go back to the previous arrangement where any font that claimed iso10646-1 support would be considered as covering symbols and punctuation well, because that means restoring the problems I tried to fix in the first place. How about the following compromise: we exclude the ranges for the most popular symbols and punctuation, which are reasonably well covered by many fonts, from the characters for which we specify Symbola? This would include the quotes you've shown and a few other similar characters. (It would require some footwork for finding out which characters are covered well by many fonts.) Would that be good enough?