From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On language-dependent defaults for character-folding Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 17:57:08 +0200 Message-ID: <83si0cakvf.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87povqe5tr.fsf@gnus.org> <87ziuta4l4.fsf@gnus.org> <87y4adzcia.fsf@gnus.org> <83twl0k1k5.fsf@gnu.org> <83k2lvi99c.fsf@gnu.org> <83oab6gfiw.fsf@gnu.org> <878u29x8vl.fsf@fastmail.fm> <83ziuncpch.fsf@gnu.org> <83fuwecztu.fsf@gnu.org> <83bn72cxfa.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1456675079 23938 80.91.229.3 (28 Feb 2016 15:57:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Feb 2016 15:57:59 +0000 (UTC) Cc: joostkremers@fastmail.fm, larsi@gnus.org, lokedhs@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "John Wiegley" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 28 16:57:58 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aa3jK-0005db-Br for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2016 16:57:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59512 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aa3jJ-0007up-VQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2016 10:57:57 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43780) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aa3j1-0007sD-H1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2016 10:57:43 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aa3ix-0003EC-Hq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 28 Feb 2016 10:57:39 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:37733) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aa3it-0003Df-6q; Sun, 28 Feb 2016 10:57:31 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3244 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1aa3il-0005uo-Pj; Sun, 28 Feb 2016 10:57:24 -0500 In-reply-to: (message from John Wiegley on Sat, 27 Feb 2016 14:48:31 -0800) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:200761 Archived-At: > From: John Wiegley > Cc: joostkremers@fastmail.fm, rms@gnu.org, lokedhs@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 14:48:31 -0800 > > From what I've seen, this is a complex feature with many corner cases, some of > which may not have been encountered yet because it hasn't been "out in the > field" except for a few pretests. I don't see any corner use cases, just some parts that, for best results, should be handled depending on the language of the text. What we have now is IMNSHO good enough, although improvements are welcome (and need infrastructure we don't currently have). This is a clear case of perfect being the enemy of good. > The question is whether it should become the default for all users > from the start. We can always enable it as a default later, so I > don't see a need to hurry. This could be a great feature to > introduce as a default in 26.1, if it receives good reception from > early adopters in 25.x. Why does it have to be a binary all or nothing decision? Users of a few languages found some of the folding patterns incorrect for their language -- why not turn only those patterns off in the locales that use only those languages? Why should we have this decision affect users who have nothing to do with those few languages? Turning this summarily off will also disable features that AFAIR no one objected to -- the ability to find á (a 2-character sequence) when looking for á (one character), or vice versa. I fail to see how a failure to match by default in this use case would make any sense at all. We should make our decisions in this matter based on understanding the issues involved, and try very hard not to throw away the baby with the bathwater.