From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: rms@gnu.org
Cc: juri@linkov.net, rudalics@gmx.at, stefankangas@gmail.com,
larsi@gnus.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, drew.adams@oracle.com,
monnier@iro.umontreal.ca
Subject: Re: Confused by y-or-n-p
Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 16:57:01 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83sg7fa0ua.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <E1kwfug-00009s-FY@fencepost.gnu.org> (message from Richard Stallman on Tue, 05 Jan 2021 01:33:50 -0500)
> From: Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
> Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, juri@linkov.net, rudalics@gmx.at,
> eliz@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org,
> drew.adams@oracle.com
> Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 01:33:50 -0500
>
> > So here's a suggestion: perhaps we should think about
> > sometimes carrying out time-boxed experiments on the master branch in
> > controversial cases. For example: we add this keybinding now, to be
> > revisited in 14/21/30 days and then a final discussion is taken to keep
> > or revert it once people have gotten some experience with it.
>
> That's fine with me, but there should be a variable to enable the
> changed behavior. That makes the experiment painless for everyone else.
It is impractical to make a variable for every change in behavior.
In some cases the change itself is a variable: for example
introduction of a new option or a new binding gives you that variable
as a side effect.
In other cases we think we are fixing a bug or a confusing or
incorrect behavior. In these cases we don't provide variables to get
back the incorrect behavior, nor should we.
In yet other cases the changes are so deep and significant that
providing backward compatibility would impose an impossible toll that
makes the entire changeset impractical.
The rare problematic cases are when the judgment call about the nature
of the change turns out to be a mistake. We should try to minimize
such mistakes, but introducing a rule that _every_ change should
necessarily come with a variable to disable or revert it is a cure
that is much worse than the disease. I'm against such absurd
measures.
To be practical, a rule like this would need to come with some
elaborate set of allowed exceptions, and that will undoubtedly trigger
endless discussions about whether this or that particular change is or
isn't an exception (because adding such compatibility shims is never a
job developers like). We have such disputes already, because we do
attempt to provide such options where deemed necessary. The proposed
rule will make that much worse, so I'm against such an absolute rule.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-01-05 14:57 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 210+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2020-12-23 15:24 Confused by y-or-n-p Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-23 16:45 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-12-23 17:04 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-23 17:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-23 18:11 ` Stefan Monnier
2020-12-23 18:44 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-25 4:29 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-23 19:48 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-12-23 19:53 ` Karl Fogel
2020-12-23 20:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-24 18:26 ` Karl Fogel
2020-12-24 5:56 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-24 5:53 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-24 6:06 ` David Masterson
2020-12-24 16:49 ` João Távora
2020-12-24 15:38 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-24 20:47 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-25 7:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-25 9:07 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-25 11:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-25 13:20 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-26 10:24 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-26 11:01 ` Jean Louis
2020-12-26 13:41 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-27 16:25 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-27 17:16 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-28 8:48 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-27 18:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-28 8:52 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-28 9:36 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-28 17:06 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-28 17:28 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-30 9:54 ` Juri Linkov
2021-01-02 5:25 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-02 13:36 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-02 5:25 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-02 5:25 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-02 7:06 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-02 7:22 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-02 17:06 ` Drew Adams
2021-01-02 17:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-03 6:06 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-03 15:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 5:16 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 6:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 7:54 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-01-04 9:21 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-04 9:24 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-04 9:55 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-04 11:28 ` Andrea Corallo via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-04 14:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-01-04 15:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 15:17 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-04 16:10 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-05 8:16 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-05 15:03 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 17:17 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 17:43 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 18:02 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 18:15 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-05 8:32 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-06 5:02 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:20 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 16:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-06 17:05 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 17:13 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 17:20 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-04 17:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-04 18:52 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-05 8:33 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-04 18:04 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-06 5:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 7:53 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 17:53 ` Juri Linkov
2021-01-05 6:33 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05 14:57 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2021-01-05 6:35 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 10:28 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-04 17:22 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 17:28 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-06 5:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 22:18 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-05 14:50 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 0:14 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-06 3:34 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 9:41 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-06 15:33 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 15:46 ` Tassilo Horn
2021-01-06 16:08 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 16:36 ` Tassilo Horn
2021-01-06 16:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 23:57 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-07 9:41 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-01-08 6:17 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 7:41 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-13 15:57 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 5:13 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05 6:29 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 8:52 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-01-05 6:33 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05 14:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-07 7:33 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:18 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 15:09 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-13 15:57 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-13 16:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-15 5:28 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-15 7:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-17 6:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 15:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-05 14:58 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 14:59 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 21:18 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2021-01-07 3:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 15:28 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:17 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 5:17 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 6:12 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-04 15:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 5:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 15:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 7:53 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 10:28 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-04 11:02 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-04 11:35 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-04 12:34 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-04 13:10 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-04 17:21 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-05 10:48 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-05 11:10 ` tomas
2021-01-05 15:34 ` martin rudalics
2021-01-04 15:19 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-04 22:17 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-05 11:44 ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-01-05 14:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-05 18:18 ` Juri Linkov
2021-01-05 6:44 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-03 6:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-03 6:01 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-04 18:03 ` Juri Linkov
2021-01-06 5:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-14 8:50 ` Juri Linkov
2021-01-15 5:41 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-03 6:03 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-03 15:13 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-05 6:25 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-05 14:54 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 0:14 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-06 0:44 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-06 9:41 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-06 11:06 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-01-06 15:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 15:46 ` Drew Adams
2021-01-06 23:57 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-07 9:46 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-01-07 10:03 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-07 10:29 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-01-09 6:34 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-09 8:32 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-09 14:06 ` Following etc/NEWS on the development branch (was: Confused by y-or-n-p) Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-01-09 14:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-09 16:05 ` Following etc/NEWS on the development branch Kévin Le Gouguec
2021-01-09 9:34 ` Confused by y-or-n-p Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-10 6:07 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:09 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 23:34 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-08 2:10 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-01-09 9:34 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-08 7:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-09 6:44 ` Stealing minibuffers [Was: Confused by y-or-n-p] Richard Stallman
2021-01-09 9:34 ` Gregory Heytings via Emacs development discussions.
2021-01-09 10:04 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-06 15:32 ` Confused by y-or-n-p Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 7:52 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-07 14:27 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-01-07 7:52 ` Richard Stallman
2021-01-06 3:35 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-28 5:26 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-28 5:51 ` Drew Adams
2020-12-28 8:59 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-26 10:24 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-26 10:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-27 5:38 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-25 9:23 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-25 11:46 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-25 8:42 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-25 11:31 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-25 13:20 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-26 10:24 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-26 10:41 ` Sv: " arthur miller
2020-12-27 5:38 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-26 10:49 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-12-26 13:45 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-27 5:46 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-26 18:30 ` Drew Adams
2020-12-25 4:40 ` Richard Stallman
2020-12-25 8:42 ` martin rudalics
2020-12-28 17:09 ` Juri Linkov
2020-12-29 8:53 ` martin rudalics
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