From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#55027: 28.1; User option python-forward-sexp-function in wrong group Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 18:37:34 +0300 Message-ID: <83sfq6qwg1.fsf@gnu.org> References: <1BD23BC0-BA0F-496D-857D-5217F6E7AB36@gmail.com> <83sfq8ticn.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmlcxo46.fsf@gmail.com> <57D38BF0-F59D-44CF-A273-18D800319F06@gmail.com> <875yn3cywh.fsf@gmail.com> <834k2nrmtr.fsf@gnu.org> <83tuamr4fy.fsf@gnu.org> <2A5C085B-B169-4834-A197-C85EFA46C722@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="1437"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 55027@debbugs.gnu.org, kevin.legouguec@gmail.com To: Howard Melman Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 21 18:30:14 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nhZh7-0000D8-QR for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 21 Apr 2022 18:30:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:58020 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nhZh6-00017f-GE for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 21 Apr 2022 12:30:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48494) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nhYsd-00052d-Qs for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Apr 2022 11:38:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:56905) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nhYsc-0001NY-Fu for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Apr 2022 11:38:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nhYsc-0003Z0-B5 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 21 Apr 2022 11:38:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:38:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 55027 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 55027-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B55027.165055546713667 (code B ref 55027); Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:38:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 55027) by debbugs.gnu.org; 21 Apr 2022 15:37:47 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:50802 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nhYsM-0003YN-OL for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Apr 2022 11:37:47 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:55108) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1nhYsL-0003YA-MS for 55027@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 21 Apr 2022 11:37:46 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:34980) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nhYsG-0001LM-Bh; Thu, 21 Apr 2022 11:37:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=MfUVDTeRyDwpDAXpDAmXQ1Nclar0JTBvqdaZf8RlCkQ=; b=dxDe6SsLAXXjjedNrV7c LqdZbjXWWR53KwOwl3Ye9rG2Fm+nFxtCvh0DdFTklx4qxOU9WjPATvaTstBSMloQDH9yFfF0bRoDk KEI5TTmgt8EJ+TsvKW2kpufFSpBndeyrIPAO+beCazTzgpKSFvEaSjkQCI4SkgMET2G3IwVAZqeK6 q3kvU34kfeMR9w/L8JVYoUfwk/vI5tdhiFlwKOJ/PaICY3iBOM+H9Lh+TMOWf3Z3Ftbd0NfQAFYwL 3UT4SZzvrrPoP2a8KHsglveQWxZE+6RiymbLO9BAPaRSuoV2xwn+w1sTauh8XIHrclYCeUZqhDGZv kzqCtJw9jRkKZA==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=1973 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nhYsF-0003j4-RL; Thu, 21 Apr 2022 11:37:40 -0400 In-Reply-To: <2A5C085B-B169-4834-A197-C85EFA46C722@gmail.com> (message from Howard Melman on Thu, 21 Apr 2022 10:33:57 -0400) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:230383 Archived-At: > From: Howard Melman > Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2022 10:33:57 -0400 > Cc: Kévin Le Gouguec , > 55027@debbugs.gnu.org > > >> Why did you keep it in the python-flymake group in addition to the > >> python group? > > > > Because it was there in Emacs 28.1. I didn't want to make > > incompatible changes on the release branch. > > I wouldn't call a change in what group an option appears in > in an interactive customize session an incompatibility. The change > in group has nothing to do with how it's set or used. If someone got used to its being in a certain group in Emacs 28.1, removing it from that group would be an incompatible change for that someone. > >> It has nothing to do with flymake. > >> > >> Since it's a new option, you're just extending the amount of time > >> for people to get confused by it. > > > > Confused in what way? How can the fact that an option appears in an > > additional customization group confuse someone? > > Because it will still appear in the python-flymake group and it has > nothing to do with flymake. Anyone looking at the python-flymake > group will be confused as to why it's there. Customization groups exist to let users conveniently find options related to some subject. Having an option in a group where it doesn't belong doesn't do any harm, as long as the option is also in a group where it does belong. So even if you are right, and the variable really has nothing to do with the python-flymake group, there's will be harm done, because being part of a group doesn't mean anything except that we considered it to be useful to be part of that group. There's no other meaning to this, and thus no confusion is or can be involved. I think you are just interpreting being part of a group incorrectly, if you think it has some significance beyond convenience. > It was a mistake for it to be in that group in the first place, why prolong it? We didn't prolong it. That option is now in the group to which it belongs, so the mistake is fixed. That it is also in another group lets users who may look for it there more time to adapt and smoother transition to its future disappearance from the python-flymake group. > I don't see why a change in which group an option appears in can > only happen in a major release. Fixing it sooner means fewer people > will be affected by any incompatibility. My opinion is different, sorry. I consider radical incompatible changes something to avoid as much as possible. Please trust me that I didn't arrive at those opinions without a good reason.