From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:10:10 +0300 Message-ID: <83r5kcjkpp.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83eigclgf0.fsf@gnu.org> <89C16A134A024399A06EFE296DC6916F@us.oracle.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276359092 26673 80.91.229.12 (12 Jun 2010 16:11:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 16:11:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 12 18:11:29 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONTIu-0005na-CC for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 18:11:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49198 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONTIt-00069V-KF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:11:27 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=44881 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONTIn-000678-Bw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:11:22 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONTIm-0002Kq-41 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:11:21 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout21.012.net.il ([80.179.55.169]:56675) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONTIl-0002Kf-Re for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 12:11:20 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout21.012.net.il by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L3W00D00SQCX900@a-mtaout21.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:10:12 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.88.125]) by a-mtaout21.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L3W00D81SWXXC10@a-mtaout21.012.net.il>; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:10:10 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: <89C16A134A024399A06EFE296DC6916F@us.oracle.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125820 Archived-At: > From: "Drew Adams" > Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 07:26:53 -0700 > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > I think you still have not given a good reason for swapping the arrow keys in an > R2L para. The reason for that is the important special case where the paragraph is made of R2L text only. In such a paragraph, moving to the left means moving forward in the buffer. That is why the left arrow does the same as C-f in a R2L paragraph. > Just explain what you explained in your first mail today: logical order (whether > C-f/C-b or arrows), paragraphs that are only R2L or only L2R, etc. You said it > very clearly and fairly succinctly. I think it probably cleared things up for > several of us. I explained some of that already, in the node "Bidirectional Editing" in the Emacs user manual. The bidi-aware behavior of the arrow keys is described in the node "Moving Point". Please see if that's enough.