From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: "Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: base
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:07:15 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83r5hmmrz0.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87fwy2g7i2.fsf@telefonica.net>
> From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>
> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 15:13:41 +0200
>
> The teachable mental model was something you insistently asked for on
> the first weeks of the transition to bzr.
I may be misremembering, but I think I was asking something entirely
different.
> It is like the Principles of Physics that, once mastered, are
> extremely useful while working with everything else on the field.
Careful! I majored in Physics.
> Git has simple foundations and those are explained on several places
> on the net. See for example
>
> http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/git.from.bottom.up.php
Once again, this is internals, not something users should need to
grasp to use the tool effectively. We use dozens of programs every
day without any comparable knowledge of how they work and what are the
data structures they manipulate. Take any example you like: Make,
GCC, GDB, you name it. Unless you happened to hack them at some
point, the "mental model" each of us has about these tools generally
has nothing to do with the data structures and algorithms you will
find if you study the code.
IOW, a "mental model" is rules of the game, they have nothing to do
with the under the hood machinery that actually makes the game tick.
> There is no such thing for bzr. There was some failed attempt of writing
> an equivalent document, which tells lots about the "simplicity" of bzr.
I rather think it speaks volumes about the (in)ability of Bazaar
developers to write good documentation. The user guide reads like it
was written by someone whose first language is not English and who
cannot explain herself in _any_ language.
> Git is a simple model wrapped on a complex UI. Bzr is a complex model
> wrapped on a deceptively simple UI. Changing the UI is easy (and there
> are lots for git.) Changing the underlying model is almost impossible.
I have no idea what is the underlying model in Bazaar, and I don't
really care how complex it is, as long as its UI is simple enough for
me to build my own mental model. And as long as the UI is simple
enough, I see no reason to change the underlying model.
I can also tell you that after spending a year studying the display
engine of Emacs, I think nothing can ever seem complex to me ;-).
What I did learn during this year is that complex models are not
necessarily bad or ugly or not extensible: look what I was able to do
with the display engine without changing anything in its basic
architecture and design.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-08-25 19:07 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 105+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-08-22 12:06 base Alan Mackenzie
2010-08-22 12:20 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-22 13:01 ` base Alan Mackenzie
2010-08-22 12:50 ` base Teemu Likonen
2010-08-22 13:20 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-23 10:38 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-23 11:03 ` base Leo
2010-08-23 12:56 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-24 4:32 ` base Richard Stallman
2010-08-24 6:01 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-24 7:22 ` base Leo
2010-08-24 8:29 ` base Andreas Schwab
2010-08-24 8:34 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-24 9:10 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-24 10:03 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 13:39 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-24 14:05 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-24 15:00 ` base Andreas Schwab
2010-08-24 16:14 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 12:32 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-24 12:51 ` base Leo
2010-08-24 13:39 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 14:25 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-24 16:18 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 14:37 ` base David Kastrup
2010-08-24 16:22 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 16:38 ` base David Kastrup
2010-08-24 17:22 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 17:35 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-24 17:45 ` base Frank Schmitt
2010-08-25 4:33 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 6:38 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 8:48 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 9:02 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 13:17 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 18:12 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 20:34 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-25 20:43 ` base Bernardo Barros
2010-08-25 20:55 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-24 18:00 ` base Leo
2010-08-24 19:04 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 23:44 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-24 23:48 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-25 0:19 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-25 3:13 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 3:44 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-25 5:46 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 8:15 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 9:35 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-25 10:43 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-25 15:34 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 11:21 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 13:13 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-25 15:11 ` base Harald Hanche-Olsen
2010-08-25 19:08 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 19:07 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2010-08-25 21:06 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-26 3:10 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 3:27 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-26 3:29 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-26 5:37 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 6:29 ` base Leo
2010-08-26 8:23 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-26 9:16 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 12:25 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-26 12:35 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 13:27 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-26 13:49 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 14:42 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-26 15:11 ` base David Robinow
2010-08-26 15:50 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-26 15:28 ` base David Kastrup
2010-08-27 5:33 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-27 13:25 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-28 15:18 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-26 11:01 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-26 17:08 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-27 13:03 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-27 13:52 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-27 14:25 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-27 15:25 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-28 16:25 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-28 17:32 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-28 18:58 ` base Leo
2010-08-28 19:58 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-28 22:51 ` base Leo
2010-08-28 19:16 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-28 20:00 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-29 12:21 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-26 18:09 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-25 16:09 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 18:51 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 10:25 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-26 11:26 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 11:52 ` base Leo
2010-08-27 5:43 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-27 6:57 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-27 7:06 ` base David Kastrup
2010-08-27 13:16 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-25 7:38 ` base Leo
2010-08-25 7:41 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-25 13:23 ` base Teemu Likonen
2010-08-25 9:07 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-24 14:09 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-24 14:13 ` base Miles Bader
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=83r5hmmrz0.fsf@gnu.org \
--to=eliz@gnu.org \
--cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
--cc=ofv@wanadoo.es \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.