From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#12911: 24.3.50; let users decide where (& perhaps whether) `emacs_backtrace.txt' files are written Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 19:53:35 +0200 Message-ID: <83r4nqztk0.fsf@gnu.org> References: <4B9EFDFEE27E43DBB6331605DD7C2842@us.oracle.com> <50A7DB2C.7050501@cs.ucla.edu> <8339082gig.fsf@gnu.org> <753BC08DCC9A446BB22336EDB8AF31CF@us.oracle.com> <83fw471s0y.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1353261317 16515 80.91.229.3 (18 Nov 2012 17:55:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 17:55:17 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 12911@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 18 18:55:25 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ta95W-0002OD-D5 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 18:55:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54065 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ta95M-0003lW-3f for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:55:12 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:60004) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ta95G-0003iB-Sa for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:55:09 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ta95D-00086V-QR for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:55:06 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:42951) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ta95D-00086Q-NQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:55:03 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ta96A-0002Ik-De for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:56:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 17:56:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 12911 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 12911-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B12911.13532613058761 (code B ref 12911); Sun, 18 Nov 2012 17:56:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 12911) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Nov 2012 17:55:05 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53198 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ta95F-0002HG-0x for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:55:05 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout20.012.net.il ([80.179.55.166]:58049) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Ta95C-0002Gq-15 for 12911@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:55:04 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout20.012.net.il by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MDP00J0030UUY00@a-mtaout20.012.net.il> for 12911@debbugs.gnu.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 19:54:02 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout20.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MDP00IV2320S7Q0@a-mtaout20.012.net.il>; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 19:54:00 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:67131 Archived-At: > From: "Drew Adams" > Cc: , <12908@debbugs.gnu.org> > Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2012 20:40:08 -0800 > > I don't care what Emacs does on Unix or on Windows. Well, I do. Which is why I'm working on developing and maintaining Emacs. And if you think that declaring your indifference to the cross-platform compatibility of Emacs raises the value of your arguments in my eyes, then I suggest that you reconsider. > my concern is at the user level. Please don't mess with user data. That's > not nice. And this includes user folders containing user files. Any folder on Windows can contain user data, because most Windows users are usually local administrators and have almost unlimited privileges (except perhaps on corporate servers). In fact, Windows doesn't even have a firm notion of a home directory. There are guidelines where _applications_ should put their files, but nothing about what is "home" for the user, where the user should keep her precious lasagna recipes. We (Emacs) pick up one or 2 plausible locations and pretend they are that "home", but they aren't, as far as the OS and the rest of applications are concerned. They are just more or less random directories. > The first rule should be not to do any harm. You are making a mount out of a molehill. There is no harm. Well-behaving applications write to all kinds of directories all the time, including user home directories. Bash writes ~/.bash_history, Bazaar writes ~/.bzr.log, Eshell writes ~/.eshell/*. Etc. etc. -- this is the norm, not the exception. Emacs behaves according to well-established norms. I agree that putting that file in ~/.emacs.d/ (also in the home a directory, so maybe you will still protest) is slightly better. But if Emacs should do that, it should do it on all the supported platforms. I'm sorry, but unless this is what's agreed soon, I _will_ close this bug.