Emacs highlighted region expanding with scrollbar movement

Emacs highlighted region expanding with scrollbar movement

[Raimund Steger]

Hi,

I've only recently upgraded to Emacs 24 (GNU Emacs 24.3.1 
(i386-pc-solaris2.11, Motif Version 2.1.0)). Before, I used Emacs 22 for 
the most part, but also Emacs 23 (briefly) in some environments.

I noticed that apparently starting with Emacs 23, the highlighted region 
behaves differently when dragging the scrollbar handle with the mouse. 
As the highlighted region moves out of the visible area of the window, 
the highlighting is suddenly expanded to follow the point. This means it 
is not possible anymore to leave something highlighted and pan around in 
the file at the same time.

I have transient-mark-mode turned off, but changing its value does not 
change the described behavior. Also, it is reproducible with 'emacs -Q' 
and seems to happen for GTK builds as well.

Is there some way to turn this off? Or am I missing something here?

Thanks a lot,
Raimund

Re: Emacs highlighted region expanding with scrollbar movement

[Andreas Röhler]

Am 22.02.2014 12:46, schrieb Raimund Steger:
> Hi,
>
> I've only recently upgraded to Emacs 24 (GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (i386-pc-solaris2.11, Motif Version 2.1.0)). Before, I used Emacs 22 for the most part, but also Emacs 23
> (briefly) in some environments.
>
> I noticed that apparently starting with Emacs 23, the highlighted region behaves differently when dragging the scrollbar handle with the mouse. As the highlighted region
> moves out of the visible area of the window, the highlighting is suddenly expanded to follow the point. This means it is not possible anymore to leave something highlighted
> and pan around in the file at the same time.
>
> I have transient-mark-mode turned off, but changing its value does not change the described behavior. Also, it is reproducible with 'emacs -Q' and seems to happen for GTK
> builds as well.
>
> Is there some way to turn this off? Or am I missing something here?
>
> Thanks a lot,
> Raimund
>
>
>

May confirm this behavior with Emacs 24.3.50.1. of 2013-07-06

Would call it focus-follows-scroll

I.e. if region-end is expected to be scrolled downward out of sight, cursor will remain at first line and thus expanding the region.

Would suggest a feature request, which would mean: no visible cursor displayed in this case.

Re: Emacs highlighted region expanding with scrollbar movement

[Eli Zaretskii]

> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 15:38:48 +0100
> From: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de>
> 
> Am 22.02.2014 12:46, schrieb Raimund Steger:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've only recently upgraded to Emacs 24 (GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (i386-pc-solaris2.11, Motif Version 2.1.0)). Before, I used Emacs 22 for the most part, but also Emacs 23
> > (briefly) in some environments.
> >
> > I noticed that apparently starting with Emacs 23, the highlighted region behaves differently when dragging the scrollbar handle with the mouse. As the highlighted region
> > moves out of the visible area of the window, the highlighting is suddenly expanded to follow the point. This means it is not possible anymore to leave something highlighted
> > and pan around in the file at the same time.
> >
> > I have transient-mark-mode turned off, but changing its value does not change the described behavior. Also, it is reproducible with 'emacs -Q' and seems to happen for GTK
> > builds as well.
> >
> > Is there some way to turn this off? Or am I missing something here?
> >
> > Thanks a lot,
> > Raimund
> >
> >
> >
> 
> May confirm this behavior with Emacs 24.3.50.1. of 2013-07-06

That's true, but I also see the same behavior in Emacs 22.1, so I'm
not sure what change in behavior is being reported here.  I don't
think this changed at all, and couldn't (see below).

> I.e. if region-end is expected to be scrolled downward out of sight, cursor will remain at first line and thus expanding the region.

Indeed: Emacs always moves point to keep it on display, so the region
is expanded as well.

> Would suggest a feature request, which would mean: no visible cursor displayed in this case.

You are actually asking for a much more significant change: to be able
to move point out if sight.  There is some infrastructure for this in
Emacs (see the window-vscroll function, for example), but user-level
commands always force point to move to keep it on display.  This has
always been central to Emacs UI design.

Re: Emacs highlighted region expanding with scrollbar movement

[Raimund Steger]

Eli Zaretskii wrote:
>> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 15:38:48 +0100 From: Andreas Röhler
>> <andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de>
>>
>> Am 22.02.2014 12:46, schrieb Raimund Steger:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I've only recently upgraded to Emacs 24 (GNU Emacs 24.3.1
>>> (i386-pc-solaris2.11, Motif Version 2.1.0)). Before, I used Emacs
>>> 22 for the most part, but also Emacs 23 (briefly) in some
>>> environments.
>>>
>>> I noticed that apparently starting with Emacs 23, the highlighted
>>> region behaves differently when dragging the scrollbar handle
>>> with the mouse. As the highlighted region moves out of the
>>> visible area of the window, the highlighting is suddenly expanded
>>> to follow the point. This means it is not possible anymore to
>>> leave something highlighted and pan around in the file at the
>>> same time.
>>>
>>> I have transient-mark-mode turned off, but changing its value
>>> does not change the described behavior. Also, it is reproducible
>>> with 'emacs -Q' and seems to happen for GTK builds as well.
>>> [...]
>>
>> May confirm this behavior with Emacs 24.3.50.1. of 2013-07-06
>
> That's true, but I also see the same behavior in Emacs 22.1, so I'm
> not sure what change in behavior is being reported here.  I don't
> think this changed at all, and couldn't (see below).

To clarify what change I'm seeing: It is true that the point has always
moved along to stay in the visible area of the window. However, somehow
the highlighted area (and X selection) hasn't, at least not in my old 
Emacs 22 here (GNU Emacs 22.3.1 (i386-pc-solaris2.10, Motif Version 2.1.0)).

-Raimund


-- 
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+49-179-2981632 icq 16845346           work: <rs@interface-ag.de>

Re: Emacs highlighted region expanding with scrollbar movement

[Andreas Röhler]

Am 22.02.2014 15:54, schrieb Eli Zaretskii:
>> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 15:38:48 +0100
>> From: Andreas Röhler <andreas.roehler@easy-emacs.de>
>>
>> Am 22.02.2014 12:46, schrieb Raimund Steger:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I've only recently upgraded to Emacs 24 (GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (i386-pc-solaris2.11, Motif Version 2.1.0)). Before, I used Emacs 22 for the most part, but also Emacs 23
>>> (briefly) in some environments.
>>>
>>> I noticed that apparently starting with Emacs 23, the highlighted region behaves differently when dragging the scrollbar handle with the mouse. As the highlighted region
>>> moves out of the visible area of the window, the highlighting is suddenly expanded to follow the point. This means it is not possible anymore to leave something highlighted
>>> and pan around in the file at the same time.
>>>
>>> I have transient-mark-mode turned off, but changing its value does not change the described behavior. Also, it is reproducible with 'emacs -Q' and seems to happen for GTK
>>> builds as well.
>>>
>>> Is there some way to turn this off? Or am I missing something here?
>>>
>>> Thanks a lot,
>>> Raimund
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> May confirm this behavior with Emacs 24.3.50.1. of 2013-07-06
>
> That's true, but I also see the same behavior in Emacs 22.1, so I'm
> not sure what change in behavior is being reported here.  I don't
> think this changed at all, and couldn't (see below).
>
>> I.e. if region-end is expected to be scrolled downward out of sight, cursor will remain at first line and thus expanding the region.
>
> Indeed: Emacs always moves point to keep it on display, so the region
> is expanded as well.
>
>> Would suggest a feature request, which would mean: no visible cursor displayed in this case.
>
> You are actually asking for a much more significant change: to be able
> to move point out if sight.  There is some infrastructure for this in
> Emacs (see the window-vscroll function, for example), but user-level
> commands always force point to move to keep it on display.  This has
> always been central to Emacs UI design.
>
>
>

Thanks. Not sure how important such a change would be. Seems more straightforward if a simple scroll doesn't move point.

Re: Emacs highlighted region expanding with scrollbar movement

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: Raimund Steger <rs@mytum.de>
> Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2014 21:12:43 +0100
> 
> To clarify what change I'm seeing: It is true that the point has always
> moved along to stay in the visible area of the window. However, somehow
> the highlighted area (and X selection) hasn't, at least not in my old 
> Emacs 22 here (GNU Emacs 22.3.1 (i386-pc-solaris2.10, Motif Version 2.1.0)).

Yes, I understand.  But that's not what I see here: the region gets
extended to reflect the point movements.