From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: More metaproblem Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:47:44 +0200 Message-ID: <83r3wd1aov.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20141203142859.24393.98673@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <20141203192721.GE12748@thyrsus.com> <547F6774.50700@cs.ucla.edu> <838uio5vjw.fsf@gnu.org> <20141203211447.GB15111@thyrsus.com> <871toge5zw.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> <83388v6hsq.fsf@gnu.org> <87egsftgd5.fsf@ktab.red-bean.com> <83egsf3yci.fsf@gnu.org> <20141204230131.5eea855f@forcix> <837fy64lq6.fsf@gnu.org> <87y4qljraj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417852076 14726 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 07:47:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 07:47:56 +0000 (UTC) Cc: kfogel@red-bean.com, esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, forcer@forcix.cx To: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 08:47:48 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxA5k-0007UG-Ea for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 08:47:48 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53663 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxA5j-0002xw-Vu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 02:47:48 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:37201) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxA5T-0002xN-P4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 02:47:35 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxA5P-0001sl-F8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 02:47:31 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout27.012.net.il ([80.179.55.183]:55198) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxA5P-0001sZ-6X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 02:47:27 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout27.012.net.il by mtaout27.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NG500400GPFK600@mtaout27.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:43:10 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout27.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NG5001KDHFYAY40@mtaout27.012.net.il>; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:43:10 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <87y4qljraj.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.183 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179103 Archived-At: > From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" > Cc: Jorgen Schaefer , > kfogel@red-bean.com, > esr@thyrsus.com, > monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, > emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2014 14:11:48 +0900 > > In particular, the older "infrastructure" projects (the earlier GNU > projects such as gcc, glibc, Emacs, the Linux kernel, the BSDs) today > have a widespread reputation for hostility in general and > unfriendliness to "diversity" in particular. One respected developer > in another community recently referred to GNU as a "cesspit" in the > same breath as condemning GitHub for its hostile internal environment. > > I don't agree with this evaluation of Emacs or other GNU projects, but > it's only fair that you know that it is indeed widespread. I do know. > > In any case, it's no more hostile than Karl's attack. > > If "Karl's attack" refers to the text "It's precisely ... out there." > quoted above, your retort was indeed more hostile. No, it refers to the entire series of his posts on the related issues here, lately and in the past. You need to read them in their entirety to get the feeling. > > And it's the truth. > > It's not obvious he was whining. OK, if "whine" is the only hostile part, then I apologize for using that word. I should have replaced it with a less aggressive one, I suppose. But that was just one word. Remove it from the text, and then tell me whether it is still hostile.