From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#23426: 25.0.93; dired-do-find-regexp doesn't find newline Date: Thu, 05 May 2016 20:01:14 +0300 Message-ID: <83r3dgh21x.fsf@gnu.org> References: <3ba077a2-21e0-9799-4f8b-c07bd1623853@yandex.ru> <6a4860bb-2b39-4da4-b2a7-7b8d15211fee@default> <831t5hkg6x.fsf@gnu.org> <7da95e19-50ff-4ca5-a5b8-2a7f65c2a7cd@default> <83oa8liz53.fsf@gnu.org> <9565500b-a35d-4de1-922d-c0131ff35ff8@default> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1462467831 17596 80.91.229.3 (5 May 2016 17:03:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 May 2016 17:03:51 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 23426@debbugs.gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru, heinz@h-rommerskirchen.de, kaushal.modi@gmail.com To: John Wiegley Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu May 05 19:03:39 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ayMgZ-0001gk-2X for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 19:03:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54475 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayMgQ-0001gV-5f for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 13:03:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49785) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayMgH-0001Rx-72 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 13:03:23 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayMg5-0008LF-FQ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 13:03:11 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:56411) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayMg5-0008Ik-CV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 13:03:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayMg1-0008Dg-Uf for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 13:03:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Thu, 05 May 2016 17:03:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 23426 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 23426-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B23426.146246773331535 (code B ref 23426); Thu, 05 May 2016 17:03:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 23426) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 May 2016 17:02:13 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40515 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayMfF-0008CZ-FO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 13:02:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:58021) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ayMfD-0008CN-U1 for 23426@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 13:02:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayMez-0007We-Ep for 23426@debbugs.gnu.org; Thu, 05 May 2016 13:02:03 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:49265) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ayMeG-00073H-JR; Thu, 05 May 2016 13:01:12 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:3661 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ayMe8-0000tv-4h; Thu, 05 May 2016 13:01:04 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from John Wiegley on Wed, 04 May 2016 11:20:31 -0700) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:117856 Archived-At: > From: John Wiegley > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , 23426@debbugs.gnu.org, dgutov@yandex.ru, heinz@h-rommerskirchen.de, kaushal.modi@gmail.com > Date: Wed, 04 May 2016 11:20:31 -0700 > > Could it all have happened differently? Sure; but as Eli and Dmitry have said, > that ship has sailed. It happened under a different maintainer, and so now we > have to accept what it is and work toward the best solution using this > technology. It's that, or rip it all out altogether, which Eli assures me > would be an unfortunate loss of time, energy, and some very nice improvements. If we will feel free to revert recent decisions just because the leader who made them stepped down, this will make the leadership position much less attractive. Not a good thing for us, as a project. The record shows that I was one of the first to publish criticism about the XREF UI, and to some extent about the design of the features based on it. That criticism was mostly rejected (although some of it was used to improve the implementation). With that decision taken, in full view of everyone on this list, to me it's what the project as a whole decided. That's what I mean by "that ship sailed". To revert that decision would IMO entail demonstrating, beyond any doubt, that these features are grossly inefficient, or incapable of supporting reasonable workflows, and that the flaws are so inherent in the design as to be beyond repair. Any other criticism should be in the form of bug reports about specific problems. Arguments and "bug reports" in the "Carthago delenda est" style are explicitly _unhelpful_ and not welcome, and IMO are simply unfair to the project as a whole. Let me repeat the rationale for those who somehow missed it: the decision was to move the tags-* commands to the new infrastructure and the new API. As part of that, 'M-,' was rebound to a new xref command, thus leaving tags-loop-continue without a binding, on the assumption that tags-loop-continue is no longer important enough to have a default keybinding. (That, too, was a conscious decision, discussed at length here.) Switching Dired keybindings that invoked commands which used tags-loop-continue to the new UI is a logical move on the path to stop using tags-loop-continue and minimize/eliminate the need for it to have a keybinding. That is why 'A' and 'Q' in Dired were rebound to new commands that are based on XREF. There's no stupidity here, and no ill will; nothing but a step that follows a decision made by the project leadership not so long ago. We should respect that decision, and work together on improving the features and fixing any issues left.