From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: master f995fbd: * lisp/server.el (server-name): Add autoload cookie. (Bug#23576) Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 10:32:23 +0300 Message-ID: <83r3cv7to8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20160518194708.27363.47377@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <20160518194708.86FE0220157@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <834m9u9dis.fsf@gnu.org> <5jy474fxib.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <8360u88vue.fsf@gnu.org> <834m9s8spf.fsf@gnu.org> <83wpmn7vhy.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1463815953 26607 80.91.229.3 (21 May 2016 07:32:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 07:32:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: sdl.web@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 21 09:32:28 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1b41Oc-0003oQ-Om for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 May 2016 09:32:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39178 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b41Ob-0001kZ-Gc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 21 May 2016 03:32:25 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:33505) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b41OV-0001kS-KR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 May 2016 03:32:20 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b41OP-0004lE-Mf for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 21 May 2016 03:32:18 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:33589) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1b41OP-0004lA-Jv; Sat, 21 May 2016 03:32:13 -0400 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.246.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.246]:4264 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1b41ON-0006Ra-M5; Sat, 21 May 2016 03:32:12 -0400 In-reply-to: (message from Dmitry Gutov on Sat, 21 May 2016 10:05:13 +0300) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:203926 Archived-At: > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Dmitry Gutov > Date: Sat, 21 May 2016 10:05:13 +0300 > > On 05/21/2016 09:52 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > > I don't see how a single autoload could produce such a dramatic > > effect. > > I guess that depends on the kinds of problems that having autoloaded > defcustoms would bring up. I agree, but the only specific problem I heard about in this and other related discussions is with duplication in loaddefs.el. I must say I don't really understand that problem, since what I see in loaddefs.el is this: (defvar server-name "server" "\ The name of the Emacs server, if this Emacs process creates one. The command `server-start' makes use of this. It should not be changed while a server is running.") (custom-autoload 'server-name "server" t) Why this is a problem in a file that is auto-generated is not clear to me. No other practical problems were brought up. The past discussions Glenn pointed to say nothing except "don't do that, EOD". Not very helpful for trying to make up my own mind about the issue. > > Avoiding such autoloading unless strictly necessary is still > > good practice, IMO. > > Right. And since the issue is marginal, the "strictly necessary" is > under dispute here. Like anything else discussed on this list. And like everything else, for marginal issues, we must at some point trust the judgment of each other, even when we don't necessarily agree.