From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2018 19:19:36 +0300 Message-ID: <83r2i4rmg7.fsf@gnu.org> References: <8336v6cvem.fsf@gnu.org> <8736v6icgt.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83tvnmb958.fsf@gnu.org> <877ekigiiw.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <837ekhb2me.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhxcbmtr.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> <871sanb71j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83y3cu7t9j.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8t2ki9.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <20180827015422.lcq44zvsjffeau4j@Ergus> <83a7p76f5e.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8p9o6y.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83pnxx1foj.fsf@gnu.org> <87bm9d9zs9.fsf@russet.org.uk> <87efe75v02.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87sh2lu471.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <87r2i4p2f8.fsf@toy.adminart.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536424286 4794 195.159.176.226 (8 Sep 2018 16:31:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2018 16:31:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: hw Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 08 18:31:21 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fyg8l-00016p-98 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 18:31:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43597 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fygAr-0005hy-Km for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 12:33:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45279) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fygAb-0004YE-TS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 12:33:14 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyfxT-00048M-Gp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 12:19:42 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::e]:50605) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fyfxT-000483-BA; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 12:19:39 -0400 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=3836 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1fyfxN-00088w-6B; Sat, 08 Sep 2018 12:19:33 -0400 In-reply-to: <87r2i4p2f8.fsf@toy.adminart.net> (message from hw on Sat, 08 Sep 2018 15:02:51 +0200) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2001:4830:134:3::e X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229501 Archived-At: > From: hw > Cc: eliz@gnu.org, phillip.lord@russet.org.uk, spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2018 15:02:51 +0200 > > > This is the normal way to do cursor motion in Emacs. You can do it > > any way you like, but we should encourage people to learn this way. > > I'm fine with encouraging people to learn these movement keys, but how > do the available movement keys give beginners good reasons to use Emacs, > and how do they make using it better for them? > > Beginners will probably consider "the normal way to do cursor motion in > Emacs" as the most complicated and awkward way to do cursor motion > anywhere. Since motion is important when using an editor, building such > a wall against it seems particularly well suited to scare them off to > other editors which appear to be easier to use. > > Tutorials which take this into account more strongly might be more > encouraging to use Emacs in the first place, and then beginners might > want to learn the special movement keys. The Emacs tutorial already mentions the arrow keys, before it teaches the more ergonomic cursor motion keys.