* bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
@ 2013-02-26 17:28 Bastien Guerry
2019-08-08 3:59 ` Stefan Kangas
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Bastien Guerry @ 2013-02-26 17:28 UTC (permalink / raw
To: 13824
The docstring of `defcustom' says:
:package-version
VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
keyword takes priority over :version.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
but `describe-variable-custom-version-info' gives priority to :version
over :package-version. Which one is correct here?
Thanks!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
2013-02-26 17:28 bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version Bastien Guerry
@ 2019-08-08 3:59 ` Stefan Kangas
2019-08-10 9:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2019-08-08 3:59 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Bastien Guerry; +Cc: 13824
Bastien Guerry <bzg@altern.org> writes:
> The docstring of `defcustom' says:
>
> :package-version
> VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> keyword takes priority over :version.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> but `describe-variable-custom-version-info' gives priority to :version
> over :package-version. Which one is correct here?
This is still an issue on current master (and 26.2).
I reproduced this using:
(progn
(defcustom foobar nil
"foo"
:version "27.1"
:package-version '(foo . "1"))
(describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar))
Which results in:
"This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
version 27.1 of Emacs.
"
But C-h f defcustom says:
:package-version
VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
keyword takes priority over :version.
Thanks,
Stefan Kangas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
2019-08-08 3:59 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2019-08-10 9:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-08-10 14:13 ` Stefan Kangas
2019-08-10 22:10 ` Bill Wohler
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-08-10 9:22 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Stefan Kangas, Bill Wohler; +Cc: bzg, 13824
> From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 05:59:21 +0200
> Cc: 13824@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> Bastien Guerry <bzg@altern.org> writes:
>
> > The docstring of `defcustom' says:
> >
> > :package-version
> > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> > keyword takes priority over :version.
> > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >
> > but `describe-variable-custom-version-info' gives priority to :version
> > over :package-version. Which one is correct here?
>
> This is still an issue on current master (and 26.2).
>
> I reproduced this using:
>
> (progn
> (defcustom foobar nil
> "foo"
> :version "27.1"
> :package-version '(foo . "1"))
> (describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar))
>
> Which results in:
>
> "This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
> version 27.1 of Emacs.
> "
>
> But C-h f defcustom says:
>
> :package-version
> VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> keyword takes priority over :version.
The implementation only prefers :package-version for the purposes of
customize-changed-options, i.e. the Options->Customize Emacs->New
Options menu item. By contrast, describe-variable-custom-version-info
is used for displaying the doc strings of options. For a package that
is bundled with Emacs, I think displaying :version in "C-h v" makes
sense. If people agree, then this is a minor documentation bug (also
to be fixed in the ELisp manual), not a code bug.
Bill, what is your take on this? Your change, which introduced this
attribute, only modified customize-changed-options. Was that on
purpose?
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
2019-08-10 9:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2019-08-10 14:13 ` Stefan Kangas
2019-08-10 22:10 ` Bill Wohler
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Stefan Kangas @ 2019-08-10 14:13 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: Bastien Guerry, Bill Wohler, 13824
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes:
> For a package that
> is bundled with Emacs, I think displaying :version in "C-h v" makes
> sense. If people agree, then this is a minor documentation bug (also
> to be fixed in the ELisp manual), not a code bug.
Yes, that makes sense. Let's see what Bill says.
Thanks,
Stefan Kangas
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
2019-08-10 9:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-08-10 14:13 ` Stefan Kangas
@ 2019-08-10 22:10 ` Bill Wohler
2019-08-10 22:40 ` Bill Wohler
2019-08-11 14:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Bill Wohler @ 2019-08-10 22:10 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: bzg, Stefan Kangas, 13824
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> > Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 05:59:21 +0200
> > Cc: 13824@debbugs.gnu.org
> >
> > Bastien Guerry <bzg@altern.org> writes:
> >
> > > The docstring of `defcustom' says:
> > >
> > > :package-version
> > > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> > > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> > > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> > > keyword takes priority over :version.
> > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > >
> > > but `describe-variable-custom-version-info' gives priority to :version
> > > over :package-version. Which one is correct here?
> >
> > This is still an issue on current master (and 26.2).
> >
> > I reproduced this using:
> >
> > (progn
> > (defcustom foobar nil
> > "foo"
> > :version "27.1"
> > :package-version '(foo . "1"))
> > (describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar))
> >
> > Which results in:
> >
> > "This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
> > version 27.1 of Emacs.
> > "
> >
> > But C-h f defcustom says:
> >
> > :package-version
> > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> > keyword takes priority over :version.
>
> The implementation only prefers :package-version for the purposes of
> customize-changed-options, i.e. the Options->Customize Emacs->New
> Options menu item. By contrast, describe-variable-custom-version-info
> is used for displaying the doc strings of options. For a package that
> is bundled with Emacs, I think displaying :version in "C-h v" makes
> sense. If people agree, then this is a minor documentation bug (also
> to be fixed in the ELisp manual), not a code bug.
>
> Bill, what is your take on this? Your change, which introduced this
> attribute, only modified customize-changed-options. Was that on
> purpose?
Thanks for asking. The original intent of package-version was to provide
more accurate version information in packages that were updated more
often than Emacs, regardless of whether they were packaged in Emacs
(like MH-E and Gnus) or not. I think that should apply to any function
that displays version information for an option. That is, any function
that looks for :version should also look for :package-version.
--
Bill Wohler <wohler@newt.com> aka <Bill.Wohler@nasa.gov>
http://www.newt.com/wohler/, GnuPG ID:610BD9AD
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
2019-08-10 22:10 ` Bill Wohler
@ 2019-08-10 22:40 ` Bill Wohler
2019-08-11 14:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Bill Wohler @ 2019-08-10 22:40 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Eli Zaretskii, Stefan Kangas, bzg, 13824
Bill Wohler <wohler@newt.com> wrote:
> Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> > > From: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>
> > > Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2019 05:59:21 +0200
> > > Cc: 13824@debbugs.gnu.org
> > >
> > > Bastien Guerry <bzg@altern.org> writes:
> > >
> > > > The docstring of `defcustom' says:
> > > >
> > > > :package-version
> > > > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> > > > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> > > > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> > > > keyword takes priority over :version.
> > > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > > >
> > > > but `describe-variable-custom-version-info' gives priority to :version
> > > > over :package-version. Which one is correct here?
> > >
> > > This is still an issue on current master (and 26.2).
> > >
> > > I reproduced this using:
> > >
> > > (progn
> > > (defcustom foobar nil
> > > "foo"
> > > :version "27.1"
> > > :package-version '(foo . "1"))
> > > (describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar))
> > >
> > > Which results in:
> > >
> > > "This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
> > > version 27.1 of Emacs.
> > > "
> > >
> > > But C-h f defcustom says:
> > >
> > > :package-version
> > > VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> > > specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> > > default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> > > keyword takes priority over :version.
> >
> > The implementation only prefers :package-version for the purposes of
> > customize-changed-options, i.e. the Options->Customize Emacs->New
> > Options menu item. By contrast, describe-variable-custom-version-info
> > is used for displaying the doc strings of options. For a package that
> > is bundled with Emacs, I think displaying :version in "C-h v" makes
> > sense. If people agree, then this is a minor documentation bug (also
> > to be fixed in the ELisp manual), not a code bug.
> >
> > Bill, what is your take on this? Your change, which introduced this
> > attribute, only modified customize-changed-options. Was that on
> > purpose?
>
> Thanks for asking. The original intent of package-version was to provide
> more accurate version information in packages that were updated more
> often than Emacs, regardless of whether they were packaged in Emacs
> (like MH-E and Gnus) or not. I think that should apply to any function
> that displays version information for an option. That is, any function
> that looks for :version should also look for :package-version.
And to answer your question directly, if I didn't change other
functions, it was not on purpose.
By the way, I just checked and describe-variable-custom-version-info,
which was added in 2007, did not yet exist when I added :package-version
in 2006.
--
Bill Wohler <wohler@newt.com> aka <Bill.Wohler@nasa.gov>
http://www.newt.com/wohler/, GnuPG ID:610BD9AD
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
2019-08-10 22:10 ` Bill Wohler
2019-08-10 22:40 ` Bill Wohler
@ 2019-08-11 14:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-08-11 18:06 ` Bill Wohler
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-08-11 14:01 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Bill Wohler; +Cc: bzg, stefan, 13824
> cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>, bzg@altern.org,
> 13824@debbugs.gnu.org
> From: Bill Wohler <wohler@newt.com>
> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:10:13 -0700
>
> > Bill, what is your take on this? Your change, which introduced this
> > attribute, only modified customize-changed-options. Was that on
> > purpose?
>
> Thanks for asking. The original intent of package-version was to provide
> more accurate version information in packages that were updated more
> often than Emacs, regardless of whether they were packaged in Emacs
> (like MH-E and Gnus) or not. I think that should apply to any function
> that displays version information for an option. That is, any function
> that looks for :version should also look for :package-version.
Thanks.
Upon taking a better look, I conclude that there's more here than
originally met the eye.
First, the doc string of defcustom says:
:package-version
VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
keyword takes priority over :version. For packages which
are bundled with Emacs releases, the PACKAGE and VERSION
must appear in the alist `customize-package-emacs-version-alist'.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So Stefan's reproducer, viz.:
(progn
(defcustom foobar nil
"foo"
:version "27.1"
:package-version '(foo . "1"))
(describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar))
wasn't supposed to work, since it doesn't play by the rules.
Next, MH-E uses :package-version, but doesn't use :version. So, for
example, "C-h v mh-whitelist-preserves-sequences-flag RET" produces
the expected
This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
version 8.4 of the MH-E package that is part of Emacs 24.4.
By contrast, Org mode files use both :package-version and :version,
which I guess was the reason why Bastien filed this bug report in the
first place.
Now, since we _require_ the package versions to appear in
customize-package-emacs-version-alist, specifying :package-version
alone provides all the info we need about both the package version and
the corresponding Emacs version. Therefore, specifying :version as
well is simply redundant when :package-version is given, and Org
shouldn't use :version (btw, Org is the only bundled package which
uses both these attributes). IOW, if a package uses both attributes,
it's a mistake, we should document that to be a mistake (i.e. not just
say :package-version "overrides"), and it should probably be flagged
as a mistake by checkdoc. And yes, functions that need the version
information should ignore :version if :package-version is available.
Which means describe-variable-custom-version-info should indeed be
fixed.
Thanks.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version
2019-08-11 14:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2019-08-11 18:06 ` Bill Wohler
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Bill Wohler @ 2019-08-11 18:06 UTC (permalink / raw
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: bzg, stefan, 13824
Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > cc: Stefan Kangas <stefan@marxist.se>, bzg@altern.org,
> > 13824@debbugs.gnu.org
> > From: Bill Wohler <wohler@newt.com>
> > Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2019 15:10:13 -0700
> >
> > > Bill, what is your take on this? Your change, which introduced this
> > > attribute, only modified customize-changed-options. Was that on
> > > purpose?
> >
> > Thanks for asking. The original intent of package-version was to provide
> > more accurate version information in packages that were updated more
> > often than Emacs, regardless of whether they were packaged in Emacs
> > (like MH-E and Gnus) or not. I think that should apply to any function
> > that displays version information for an option. That is, any function
> > that looks for :version should also look for :package-version.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Upon taking a better look, I conclude that there's more here than
> originally met the eye.
>
> First, the doc string of defcustom says:
>
> :package-version
> VALUE should be a list with the form (PACKAGE . VERSION)
> specifying that the variable was first introduced, or its
> default value was changed, in PACKAGE version VERSION. This
> keyword takes priority over :version. For packages which
> are bundled with Emacs releases, the PACKAGE and VERSION
> must appear in the alist `customize-package-emacs-version-alist'.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> So Stefan's reproducer, viz.:
>
> (progn
> (defcustom foobar nil
> "foo"
> :version "27.1"
> :package-version '(foo . "1"))
> (describe-variable-custom-version-info 'foobar))
>
> wasn't supposed to work, since it doesn't play by the rules.
>
> Next, MH-E uses :package-version, but doesn't use :version. So, for
> example, "C-h v mh-whitelist-preserves-sequences-flag RET" produces
> the expected
>
> This variable was introduced, or its default value was changed, in
> version 8.4 of the MH-E package that is part of Emacs 24.4.
>
> By contrast, Org mode files use both :package-version and :version,
> which I guess was the reason why Bastien filed this bug report in the
> first place.
>
> Now, since we _require_ the package versions to appear in
> customize-package-emacs-version-alist, specifying :package-version
> alone provides all the info we need about both the package version and
> the corresponding Emacs version. Therefore, specifying :version as
> well is simply redundant when :package-version is given, and Org
> shouldn't use :version (btw, Org is the only bundled package which
> uses both these attributes). IOW, if a package uses both attributes,
> it's a mistake, we should document that to be a mistake (i.e. not just
> say :package-version "overrides"), and it should probably be flagged
> as a mistake by checkdoc. And yes, functions that need the version
> information should ignore :version if :package-version is available.
> Which means describe-variable-custom-version-info should indeed be
> fixed.
Thanks for digging in. That makes sense. A function that gets the
version info from :package-version or :version as appropriate could be
written (if it hasn't already). If used consistently throughout, it
would provide a good example for obtaining version information.
>
> Thanks.
>
--
Bill Wohler <wohler@newt.com> aka <Bill.Wohler@nasa.gov>
http://www.newt.com/wohler/, GnuPG ID:610BD9AD
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2019-08-11 18:06 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2013-02-26 17:28 bug#13824: 24.3.50; :package-version not taking priority over :version Bastien Guerry
2019-08-08 3:59 ` Stefan Kangas
2019-08-10 9:22 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-08-10 14:13 ` Stefan Kangas
2019-08-10 22:10 ` Bill Wohler
2019-08-10 22:40 ` Bill Wohler
2019-08-11 14:01 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-08-11 18:06 ` Bill Wohler
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