bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Alfred M. Szmidt]

The color for symlinks and directories is the same on the terminal in
OpenBSD, though the face differs (eshell-ls-symlink which is Cyan
vs. eshell-ls-directory which is SkyBlue).  This is slightly
confusing, since if the symlink points to a file, one might assume
that one can change directories there.


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bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt)
> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2020 13:00:59 -0400
> 
> The color for symlinks and directories is the same on the terminal in
> OpenBSD, though the face differs (eshell-ls-symlink which is Cyan
> vs. eshell-ls-directory which is SkyBlue).  This is slightly
> confusing, since if the symlink points to a file, one might assume
> that one can change directories there.

On the same terminal, if you start "M-x shell" and invoke 'ls', which
colors do you see for these two file types?

bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Alfred M. Szmidt]

   > The color for symlinks and directories is the same on the terminal in
   > OpenBSD, though the face differs (eshell-ls-symlink which is Cyan
   > vs. eshell-ls-directory which is SkyBlue).  This is slightly
   > confusing, since if the symlink points to a file, one might assume
   > that one can change directories there.

   On the same terminal, if you start "M-x shell" and invoke 'ls', which
   colors do you see for these two file types?

It is a grey color; nor is there a face associated with either of the
two file types.

bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt)
> CC: 43615@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2020 13:25:37 -0400
> 
>    > The color for symlinks and directories is the same on the terminal in
>    > OpenBSD, though the face differs (eshell-ls-symlink which is Cyan
>    > vs. eshell-ls-directory which is SkyBlue).  This is slightly
>    > confusing, since if the symlink points to a file, one might assume
>    > that one can change directories there.
> 
>    On the same terminal, if you start "M-x shell" and invoke 'ls', which
>    colors do you see for these two file types?
> 
> It is a grey color; nor is there a face associated with either of the
> two file types.

Even if you say "ls --color=always"?

And how do the colors look when you invoke 'ls --color' from the
shell?

bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Alfred M. Szmidt]

   >    > The color for symlinks and directories is the same on the terminal in
   >    > OpenBSD, though the face differs (eshell-ls-symlink which is Cyan
   >    > vs. eshell-ls-directory which is SkyBlue).  This is slightly
   >    > confusing, since if the symlink points to a file, one might assume
   >    > that one can change directories there.
   > 
   >    On the same terminal, if you start "M-x shell" and invoke 'ls', which
   >    colors do you see for these two file types?
   > 
   > It is a grey color; nor is there a face associated with either of the
   > two file types.

   Even if you say "ls --color=always"?

   And how do the colors look when you invoke 'ls --color' from the
   shell?

OpenBSD ls doesn't support the --color option (or colors I think?),
not sure I understand why that matters since I think eshell ls does it
all in Emacs Lisp without using any host ls command?

bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt)
> CC: 43615@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2020 13:50:12 -0400
> 
>    >    On the same terminal, if you start "M-x shell" and invoke 'ls', which
>    >    colors do you see for these two file types?
>    > 
>    > It is a grey color; nor is there a face associated with either of the
>    > two file types.
> 
>    Even if you say "ls --color=always"?
> 
>    And how do the colors look when you invoke 'ls --color' from the
>    shell?
> 
> OpenBSD ls doesn't support the --color option (or colors I think?),
> not sure I understand why that matters

I was trying to establish what colors would be reasonable there.

How many colors does that terminal support?

bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Alfred M. Szmidt]

   >    >    On the same terminal, if you start "M-x shell" and invoke 'ls', which
   >    >    colors do you see for these two file types?
   >    > 
   >    > It is a grey color; nor is there a face associated with either of the
   >    > two file types.
   > 
   >    Even if you say "ls --color=always"?
   > 
   >    And how do the colors look when you invoke 'ls --color' from the
   >    shell?
   > 
   > OpenBSD ls doesn't support the --color option (or colors I think?),
   > not sure I understand why that matters

   I was trying to establish what colors would be reasonable there.

   How many colors does that terminal support?

16 colors from what I understand.  list-color-display shows:

  black		       black  #000000
  red		       red  #ff0000
  green		       green  #00ff00
  yellow		       yellow  #ffff00
  blue		       blue  #0000ff
  magenta		       magenta  #ff00ff
  cyan		       cyan  #00ffff
  white		       white  #ffffff

I'd think that magenta would make most sense, but that would require
changing what is used for eshell-ls-archive?

bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt)
> CC: 43615@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 02:22:20 -0400
> 
>    How many colors does that terminal support?
> 
> 16 colors from what I understand.  list-color-display shows:
> 
>   black		       black  #000000
>   red		       red  #ff0000
>   green		       green  #00ff00
>   yellow		       yellow  #ffff00
>   blue		       blue  #0000ff
>   magenta		       magenta  #ff00ff
>   cyan		       cyan  #00ffff
>   white		       white  #ffffff

This indicates you have only 8 colors, not 16.

> I'd think that magenta would make most sense, but that would require
> changing what is used for eshell-ls-archive?

Doing TRT with just 8 colors is a tough nut, since there are 11 file
types for which Eshell uses colors.  Maybe colors should be disabled
for such terminals?  Or maybe some faces should have no color
definitions for 8-color terminals, leaving only the most frequent and
important files shown in color?

bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Alfred M. Szmidt]

   >   black		       black  #000000
   >   red		       red  #ff0000
   >   green		       green  #00ff00
   >   yellow		       yellow  #ffff00
   >   blue		       blue  #0000ff
   >   magenta		       magenta  #ff00ff
   >   cyan		       cyan  #00ffff
   >   white		       white  #ffffff

   This indicates you have only 8 colors, not 16.

I based the 16 colors on the documentation for the console; it might
be that there is some switch one can flip for more.

   > I'd think that magenta would make most sense, but that would require
   > changing what is used for eshell-ls-archive?

   Doing TRT with just 8 colors is a tough nut, since there are 11
   file types for which Eshell uses colors.  Maybe colors should be
   disabled for such terminals?  Or maybe some faces should have no
   color definitions for 8-color terminals, leaving only the most
   frequent and important files shown in color?

I think the later would make most sense.  What would a good criteria
be for frequet/important?  In my mind, I'd like to know first and for
most if a file is a plain file, directory, symlink or special.  Then,
if it is executable -- to know if ./foo will work.

After that, I think it is mostly nice things, being able to know if a
file is missing, unreadable, or readonly is useful information since
that means you know what happens if you open the file.

This is slightly different thant for archives, since Emacs will switch
to whatever mode the file suffix is anyway for any file, and archives
aren't "that" special.

Lastly, not showing backup/junk/product files in a highly contrasted
color.

Does that make sense?  That would make the list of faces for 8 color
(though this would require to modify the scheme slightly):

  plain
  directory
  symlink
  special
  executable
  readonly / unreadable/ missing
  backup / product / clutter

So maybe just limit it to the plain / directory / symlink / special /
executable group?

bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Andreas Schwab]

On Sep 26 2020, Alfred M. Szmidt wrote:

>    >   black		       black  #000000
>    >   red		       red  #ff0000
>    >   green		       green  #00ff00
>    >   yellow		       yellow  #ffff00
>    >   blue		       blue  #0000ff
>    >   magenta		       magenta  #ff00ff
>    >   cyan		       cyan  #00ffff
>    >   white		       white  #ffffff
>
>    This indicates you have only 8 colors, not 16.
>
> I based the 16 colors on the documentation for the console; it might
> be that there is some switch one can flip for more.

Perhaps the other 8 colors are just dim variants, or similar.  What is
the output of the infocmp command?

Andreas.

-- 
Andreas Schwab, schwab@linux-m68k.org
GPG Key fingerprint = 7578 EB47 D4E5 4D69 2510  2552 DF73 E780 A9DA AEC1
"And now for something completely different."

bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt)
> CC: 43615@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 04:33:00 -0400
> 
>    >   black		       black  #000000
>    >   red		       red  #ff0000
>    >   green		       green  #00ff00
>    >   yellow		       yellow  #ffff00
>    >   blue		       blue  #0000ff
>    >   magenta		       magenta  #ff00ff
>    >   cyan		       cyan  #00ffff
>    >   white		       white  #ffffff
> 
>    This indicates you have only 8 colors, not 16.
> 
> I based the 16 colors on the documentation for the console; it might
> be that there is some switch one can flip for more.

If the terminal supports 16 colors, it means Emacs is not being told
about that.  Are you sure your TERM variable points to the correct
terminfo entry?

Anyway, this is a separate problem.

>   plain
>   directory
>   symlink
>   special
>   executable
>   readonly / unreadable/ missing
>   backup / product / clutter
> 
> So maybe just limit it to the plain / directory / symlink / special /
> executable group?

Plain files could just be left at the default face, no?  That would
leave us with directory, symlink, executable, and
backup/product/clutter, 4 colors.  Maybe also add archive, which
yields 5 colors.  Makes sense?

bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Alfred M. Szmidt]

   Perhaps the other 8 colors are just dim variants, or similar.  What is
   the output of the infocmp command?

#	Reconstructed via infocmp from file: /usr/share/terminfo/w/wsvt25
wsvt25|NetBSD wscons in 25 line DEC VT220 mode,
	am, bce, mc5i, mir, msgr, xenl, xon,
	colors#8, cols#80, it#8, lines#25, ncv#2, pairs#64, vt#3,
	acsc=``aaffggjjkkllmmnnooppqqrrssttuuvvwwxxyyzz{{||}}~~,
	bel=^G, blink=\E[5m, bold=\E[1m, civis=\E[?25l,
	clear=\E[H\E[J, cnorm=\E[?25h, cr=^M,
	csr=\E[%i%p1%d;%p2%dr, cub=\E[%p1%dD, cub1=^H,
	cud=\E[%p1%dB, cud1=^J, cuf=\E[%p1%dC, cuf1=\E[C,
	cup=\E[%i%p1%d;%p2%dH, cuu=\E[%p1%dA, cuu1=\E[A,
	dch=\E[%p1%dP, dch1=\E[P, dl=\E[%p1%dM, dl1=\E[M,
	ech=\E[%p1%dX, ed=\E[J, el=\E[K, el1=\E[1K, enacs=\E)0,
	flash=\E[?5h$<200/>\E[?5l, home=\E[H, ht=^I, hts=\EH,
	ich=\E[%p1%d@, if=/usr/share/tabset/vt100,
	il=\E[%p1%dL, il1=\E[L, ind=\ED, is2=\E[r\E[25;1H, kbs=^H,
	kcub1=\E[D, kcud1=\E[B, kcuf1=\E[C, kcuu1=\E[A,
	kdch1=\E[3~, kend=\E[8~, kf1=\E[11~, kf10=\E[21~,
	kf11=\E[23~, kf12=\E[24~, kf13=\E[25~, kf14=\E[26~,
	kf17=\E[31~, kf18=\E[32~, kf19=\E[33~, kf2=\E[12~,
	kf20=\E[34~, kf3=\E[13~, kf4=\E[14~, kf5=\E[15~,
	kf6=\E[17~, kf7=\E[18~, kf8=\E[19~, kf9=\E[20~, kfnd=\E[1~,
	khlp=\E[28~, khome=\E[7~, kich1=\E[2~, knp=\E[6~,
	kpp=\E[5~, krdo=\E[29~, kslt=\E[4~, lf1=pf1, lf2=pf2,
	lf3=pf3, lf4=pf4, mc0=\E[i, mc4=\E[4i, mc5=\E[5i, nel=\EE,
	op=\E[m, rc=\E8, rev=\E[7m, ri=\EM, rmacs=\E(B$<4>,
	rmam=\E[?7l, rmir=\E[4l, rmso=\E[27m, rmul=\E[24m, rs1=\Ec,
	sc=\E7, setab=\E[4%p1%dm, setaf=\E[3%p1%dm,
	sgr=\E[0%?%p6%t;1%;%?%p2%t;4%;%?%p4%t;5%;%?%p1%p3%|%t;7%;m%?%p9%t\E(0%e\E(B%;$<2>,
	sgr0=\E[m\E(B, smacs=\E(0$<2>, smam=\E[?7h, smir=\E[4h,
	smso=\E[7m, smul=\E[4m, tbc=\E[3g, u6=\E[%i%d;%dR,
	u7=\E[6n, u8=\E[?%[;0123456789]c, u9=\E[c,

bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Alfred M. Szmidt]

   >    >   black		       black  #000000
   >    >   red		       red  #ff0000
   >    >   green		       green  #00ff00
   >    >   yellow		       yellow  #ffff00
   >    >   blue		       blue  #0000ff
   >    >   magenta		       magenta  #ff00ff
   >    >   cyan		       cyan  #00ffff
   >    >   white		       white  #ffffff
   > 
   >    This indicates you have only 8 colors, not 16.
   > 
   > I based the 16 colors on the documentation for the console; it might
   > be that there is some switch one can flip for more.

   If the terminal supports 16 colors, it means Emacs is not being told
   about that.  Are you sure your TERM variable points to the correct
   terminfo entry?

   Anyway, this is a separate problem.

It is set to wsvt25 -- which is the default.

   >   plain
   >   directory
   >   symlink
   >   special
   >   executable
   >   readonly / unreadable/ missing
   >   backup / product / clutter
   > 
   > So maybe just limit it to the plain / directory / symlink / special /
   > executable group?

   Plain files could just be left at the default face, no?  

Yes.

   That would leave us with directory, symlink, executable, and
   backup/product/clutter, 4 colors.  Maybe also add archive, which
   yields 5 colors.  Makes sense?

Yes (though I don't understand why archive needs to be a different
face -- but that is a different problem too).  I think it would be
useful to differentate at least "special"?

bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt)
> CC: 43615@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 05:45:14 -0400
> 
>    Plain files could just be left at the default face, no?  
> 
> Yes.
> 
>    That would leave us with directory, symlink, executable, and
>    backup/product/clutter, 4 colors.  Maybe also add archive, which
>    yields 5 colors.  Makes sense?
> 
> Yes (though I don't understand why archive needs to be a different
> face -- but that is a different problem too).  I think it would be
> useful to differentate at least "special"?

We could add "special", yes, as we still have one more color.

I think archives should have distinct colors because that's what I see
when I run 'ls' on an 8-color terminal.

bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Eli Zaretskii]

> From: ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt)
> CC: eliz@gnu.org, 43615@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2020 05:45:13 -0400
> 
>    Perhaps the other 8 colors are just dim variants, or similar.  What is
>    the output of the infocmp command?
> 
> #	Reconstructed via infocmp from file: /usr/share/terminfo/w/wsvt25
> wsvt25|NetBSD wscons in 25 line DEC VT220 mode,
> 	am, bce, mc5i, mir, msgr, xenl, xon,
> 	colors#8, cols#80, it#8, lines#25, ncv#2, pairs#64, vt#3,

AFAIU, this says 8 colors.  And "ncv#2" AFAIU says we cannot use
colors with underline, but can use it with bold and dim.  So maybe
using bold will allow us to double the number of colors.

bug#43615: 26.3; eshell: face for directory and symlink the same in terminal

[Lars Ingebrigtsen]

ams@gnu.org (Alfred M. Szmidt) writes:

> The color for symlinks and directories is the same on the terminal in
> OpenBSD, though the face differs (eshell-ls-symlink which is Cyan
> vs. eshell-ls-directory which is SkyBlue).  This is slightly
> confusing, since if the symlink points to a file, one might assume
> that one can change directories there.

I've now fixed this in Emacs 29 by using the same faces that dired uses
here -- they have support for 8 colour displays etc.

-- 
(domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.)
   bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no