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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Lynn Winebarger <owinebar@gmail.com>
Cc: michael.albinus@gmx.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Loading tramp for dump goes into infinite regress
Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2022 16:56:06 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83r129e1op.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAM=F=bBwjdx1==pY1j9dwCTyvwuX+=XdF9c_krkJogKVY0M4qQ@mail.gmail.com> (message from Lynn Winebarger on Mon, 25 Jul 2022 08:49:27 -0400)

> From: Lynn Winebarger <owinebar@gmail.com>
> Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2022 08:49:27 -0400
> Cc: michael.albinus@gmx.de, emacs-devel <emacs-devel@gnu.org>
> 
> > > it seems like something undesirable is going on between dumping and
> > > the native compilation unit.
> >
> > I find this hard to believe.
> 
> If I can recreate it in a more direct way on my personal machines, I'll put in a bug with details including the
> required modifications to tramp.el (to remove the problematic require of tramp-loaddefs).

Please do.

> > Btw, you are aware that dumping *.eln files basically dumps just their
> > names, not their code?  And that, when you start Emacs after dumping,
> > it will load all of those *.eln files one by one, which takes time
> > (*.eln files are just shared libraries, like *.so files), and use up
> > shared-library and handle slots of the Emacs process?  So I'm not even
> > sure doing this would make sense from the performance POV: it could be
> > that startup will slower, not faster.
> 
> I am aware that dumping the eln files produces an indirection to the shared library, but not the details of the
> implementation.
> I would expect (or at least hope) that the effect of the evaluation that is done on loading to be stored in the
> dump and for the shared libraries to get loaded into the process without repeating the evaluation.  So things
> like the order of customization groups should be fixed.

It depends on the top-level forms of the package, and what they do.
If they change values of variables, those values will be dumped, yes.

> I would also expect that whatever the effect is on the emacs process with .eln files loaded by the dumped
> file, it is no worse than it would be if loaded as part of my .emacs file.

How is this different from the previous expectation of yours?

> Another benefit I expect from native-compilation, dumped or not, is more efficient memory use when running
> multiple emacs processes.  With dumping, I would expect (or hope for) better garbage collector behavior
> since the amount of allocation required for the loaded modules should be pre-determined (whether byte- or
> native-compiled).  If the image is 300MB (including the shared libraries), so be it, as long as the memory is
> shared between multiple processes.  

I don't think I understand this expectation, and I don't think
natively-compiled code has any advantages wrt GC over the
byte-compiled code.

> I'd also like a baseline expectation of performance with native-compiled libraries in the dumped image.

What kind of performance?

> > In any case, I'd suggest to get this working with *.elc files in a
> > build without native compilation support, before you try it with
> > native compilation.
> 
> First I'll see if I can get the ordering straightened out with just the core emacs files required by these
> packages, then do a test between byte-compiled and native-compiled on those.

I'm saying that your job could be easier if you did the first step
with byte-compiled files.



  reply	other threads:[~2022-07-25 13:56 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 41+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-07-24  0:47 Loading tramp for dump goes into infinite regress Lynn Winebarger
2022-07-24  7:55 ` Michael Albinus
2022-07-24 12:05   ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-07-24 12:23     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-24 13:30       ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-07-24 13:34         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-24 14:05           ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-07-24 14:09             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-24 14:28               ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-07-24 16:00             ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-07-24 16:20               ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-07-24 16:31                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-07-25 12:49                   ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-07-25 13:56                     ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2022-07-26 11:24                       ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-07-27  0:58                         ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-07-27  2:48                           ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-07-27  8:31                             ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-09 12:29                       ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-09 12:36                         ` Po Lu
2022-08-09 13:22                           ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-09 13:42                             ` Po Lu
2022-08-09 15:55                               ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-07-25 16:54                     ` Stefan Monnier
2022-07-25 17:05                       ` Stefan Monnier
2022-07-26  0:28                       ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-07-26  1:10                         ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-06  6:07                       ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-06 12:57                         ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-06 15:39                           ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-06 20:23                             ` Working fully native-compiled "mega dump" (was Re: Loading tramp for dump goes into infinite regress) Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-06 20:52                               ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-07-25 20:11                     ` Loading tramp for dump goes into infinite regress Andrea Corallo
2022-07-31 20:22                       ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-03  9:58                         ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-03 12:22                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-03 14:53                             ` Native-compilation build process (was Re: Loading tramp for dump goes into infinite regress) Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-03 16:15                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-08-04  3:33                                 ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-08-05  1:57                                   ` Lynn Winebarger
2022-07-24 16:23               ` Loading tramp for dump goes into infinite regress Eli Zaretskii

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