From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#38736: 26.3; ellipsis in `*Messages*', doc of `format' etc. Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2019 16:34:41 +0200 Message-ID: <83pngcv5ha.fsf@gnu.org> References: <006e6244-dd0a-46a8-8c61-36744b3216de@default> Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="45869"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 38736@debbugs.gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 25 15:35:13 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1ik7km-000Bn6-U3 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Dec 2019 15:35:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46926 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ik7kl-00022Y-9y for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Dec 2019 09:35:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:46859) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ik7kf-00022N-BA for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Dec 2019 09:35:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ik7ke-0005S2-8o for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Dec 2019 09:35:05 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:47444) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ik7kb-0005Re-Pk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Dec 2019 09:35:04 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ik7kb-0000yG-N0 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Dec 2019 09:35:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 25 Dec 2019 14:35:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 38736 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 38736-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B38736.15772845003722 (code B ref 38736); Wed, 25 Dec 2019 14:35:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 38736) by debbugs.gnu.org; 25 Dec 2019 14:35:00 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53417 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ik7ka-0000xx-7L for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Dec 2019 09:35:00 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:37782) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1ik7kY-0000xl-Tf for 38736@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 25 Dec 2019 09:34:59 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:59706) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ik7kT-0005Pc-B9; Wed, 25 Dec 2019 09:34:53 -0500 Original-Received: from [176.228.60.248] (port=4904 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1ik7kS-0002Kp-Ht; Wed, 25 Dec 2019 09:34:52 -0500 In-reply-to: <006e6244-dd0a-46a8-8c61-36744b3216de@default> (message from Drew Adams on Tue, 24 Dec 2019 13:02:55 -0800 (PST)) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:173747 Archived-At: > Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2019 13:02:55 -0800 (PST) > From: Drew Adams > > The doc string of `format' doesn't tell you anything about control by > `print-level', `print-length', etc. Please consider adding such info. > > Consider trying to figure out, when looking at a message in > `*Messages*', why a long list value shows ellipsis ("..."), instead of > showing all the elements. You try `C-h f message', which says nothing > about this. The most it does is provide a bunch of details about the > formatting intermediary `format-message', imposed since Emacs 25. How did you get the ellipsis in *Messages*? I'm guessing you invoked 'eval', because this is a feature of 'eval'. So looking for the information in the doc string of 'message' is a somewhat strange place. The doc string of 'eval' does mention the variables which control when the ellipsis is produced. > Following the `format-message' link, you still get no clue about this, > but you then follow a link for `format'. There you still get no clue > about it, but you see that %S uses `prin1'. > > Following the `prin1' link you finally find out that you can control > `message's use of ellipsis using `print-length' and `print-level'. > > Users shouldn't have to go through all of that (and that even assumes > that they are able to guess that following just that thread might get > them somewhere useful). > > What's true for `message' is also true for `error', etc. At least the > doc of `format' - and probably its often-used callers, such as `message' > - should specifically mention these "print"-controlling (really just > formatting) variables. I don't think it's reasonable to ask to have this low-level stuff bubble up to such high levels, which are quite far from the features which are affected by these variables. %S is not a frequently used format, so describing what prin1 does in the doc strings of 'message' etc. just for its sake doesn't seem like a good idea to me. OTOH, I'd expect users who use %S to know already about the ellipsis and how to control it.