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From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Would there be a drawback of using the same graphical toolkit on every platform?
Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2022 21:37:31 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83pmniy7es.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <OOPd6XfjZAVwIFMVylQQSnevSiZAjIkLuhfqSrp96T2R2-KPDYbY0ZHOL3r5SC-wWW7DTBxpqaQgkS_sWGjbkD-M-xgzv8vGPovezU_mrQM=@protonmail.com> (message from emacsq on Sat, 19 Feb 2022 19:20:35 +0000)

> Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2022 19:20:35 +0000
> From: emacsq <laszlomail@protonmail.com>
> Cc: Po Lu <luangruo@yahoo.com>,
>  emacsq via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
>  <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org>
> 
> > That is because
> > Emacs reverse the framowork roles, which does not work always well with toolkits
> > that are designed to be in driving seat of the application main loop and
> > display. There is an interesting post about Emacs and how it threats graphical displays by D. Colascione
> 
> An excerpt:
> 
> "One simple approach to implementing redisplay is to just redraw all the frames, windows, and buffers from scratch. This approach might be good enough for a shitty 2016 video game like Nuclide or Eclipse, but not Emacs.
> Emacs was designed for much more constrained systems. Men were men, women were women, and bandwidth was expensive. Consequently, Emacs tries very hard to optimize redisplay."

This is almost unrelated to the issue at hand, which AFAIU is what
toolkits to use.  Toolkits have almost no role in the Emacs redisplay
and no influence on it

> Since today bandwidth is not expensive, does this mean Emacs could
> move avay from the current redisplay to a simpler method which just
> redraws everything when required?

No.  Redrawing all the windows on all the frames would be unbearably
slow, even today.  A small example: in Emacs, even moving the cursor
one buffer position to the right or to the left triggers a redisplay
cycle.  Redrawing everything upon each cursor movement would be very
slow and will cause an annoying flickering.

Redisplay optimizations still count, even today.  One (but not the
only one) reason is that computers became faster, but people's
expectations from them changed accordingly.  No one would like to have
a 0.5 sec delay in response to some command like cursor motion of
window scroll.



  reply	other threads:[~2022-02-19 19:37 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 128+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2022-02-18 20:59 Would there be a drawback of using the same graphical toolkit on every platform? emacsq via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-18 22:23 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-19  3:21 ` emacsq via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-19  3:38   ` Po Lu
2022-02-19  3:44     ` Po Lu
2022-02-19  4:10     ` emacsq
2022-02-19  4:52       ` Po Lu
2022-02-19  6:24         ` emacsq
2022-02-19  6:37           ` Po Lu
2022-02-19 14:57       ` Arthur Miller
2022-02-19 19:20         ` emacsq
2022-02-19 19:37           ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2022-02-20  1:10         ` Po Lu
2022-02-20 13:46           ` Arthur Miller
2022-02-20 14:00             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-02-20 17:53               ` Arthur Miller
2022-02-20 18:08                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-02-20 19:34                   ` Arthur Miller
2022-02-21  1:10                     ` Po Lu
2022-02-21  7:01                       ` Po Lu
2022-02-21 16:50                       ` Arthur Miller
2022-02-22  0:50                         ` Po Lu
2022-02-23 11:53                           ` Arthur Miller
2022-02-23 12:03                             ` Po Lu
2022-02-23 18:34                               ` Arthur Miller
2022-02-20 18:32                 ` tomas
2022-02-20 18:57                   ` Arthur Miller
2022-02-20 19:47                     ` tomas
2022-02-21  1:18                       ` Po Lu
2022-02-21  5:58                         ` tomas
2022-02-21  1:13                   ` Po Lu
2022-02-20 14:05             ` Po Lu
2022-02-20 18:40               ` Arthur Miller
2022-02-21  1:02                 ` Po Lu
2022-02-21 19:34                   ` Arthur Miller
2022-02-22  0:55                     ` Po Lu
2022-02-21 13:53               ` Max Brieiev
2022-02-22  0:56                 ` Po Lu
2022-02-22 12:00                   ` Byung-Hee HWANG
2022-02-22 12:02                     ` Po Lu
2022-02-22 12:33                       ` Byung-Hee HWANG
2022-02-22 14:09                         ` Jean Louis
2022-02-22 14:39                           ` Byung-Hee HWANG
2022-02-22 14:05                     ` Jean Louis
2022-02-20 14:12             ` Jean Louis
2022-02-20 16:46               ` Samuel Banya
2022-02-20 13:41     ` Sergey Organov
2022-02-20 13:54       ` Po Lu
2022-02-20 20:11       ` Byung-Hee HWANG
2022-02-19  7:29 ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-02-19  7:38   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-19  8:53     ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-02-19  9:09       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-19  9:26         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-02-19 12:04           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-19 10:01         ` Pankaj Jangid
2022-02-19 13:59           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-19 17:54         ` Jean Louis
2022-02-19 22:42           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-20 12:39             ` Jean Louis
2022-02-27  1:20               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-19 17:51   ` Jean Louis
2022-02-19 17:56     ` Samuel Banya
2022-02-19 18:06       ` DragonFlyBSD Jean Louis
2022-02-19 22:48         ` DragonFlyBSD Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-20 12:17           ` DragonFlyBSD Jean Louis
2022-02-21  5:51             ` DragonFlyBSD Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-21 14:03               ` DragonFlyBSD Jean Louis
2022-02-21 15:22                 ` DragonFlyBSD Samuel Banya
2022-02-21 18:18                   ` DragonFlyBSD Jean Louis
2022-02-26 16:54                     ` DragonFlyBSD Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-26 16:49                   ` DragonFlyBSD Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-26 16:45                 ` DragonFlyBSD Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-27  2:53                   ` DragonFlyBSD Samuel Banya
2022-02-27  2:59                     ` DragonFlyBSD Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-21 19:49               ` DragonFlyBSD Lele Gaifax
2022-02-26 16:55                 ` DragonFlyBSD Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-03-01 20:33                   ` DragonFlyBSD Lele Gaifax
2022-03-01 22:08                     ` DragonFlyBSD Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-03-02  7:19                       ` DragonFlyBSD Lele Gaifax
2022-03-02 19:44                         ` DEOL: Declarative Emacs On-Line (was: Re: DragonFlyBSD) Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-03-03  7:14                           ` DEOL: Declarative Emacs On-Line Lele Gaifax
2022-03-04  2:28                             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-19 22:44       ` Would there be a drawback of using the same graphical toolkit on every platform? Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-20 12:42         ` Purposes of BSD-like systems Jean Louis
2022-02-20 12:56           ` Po Lu
2022-02-21  4:41           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-21  9:50             ` andrew
2022-02-26 16:41               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-21 14:04             ` Jean Louis
2022-02-26 16:39               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-19 18:08     ` Would there be a drawback of using the same graphical toolkit on every platform? Eli Zaretskii
2022-02-19 19:30       ` Jean Louis
2022-02-19 19:38         ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-02-19 22:55           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-20  0:40           ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-20 12:21           ` Why is GNU not Unix-like system? Jean Louis
2022-02-20 13:00             ` Eli Zaretskii
2022-02-19 19:35       ` Would there be a drawback of using the same graphical toolkit on every platform? Jean Louis
2022-02-19 23:02         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-19 22:52       ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-19 22:29     ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-19 23:50       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2022-02-20  0:21         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-20  0:31           ` Drew Adams
2022-02-20  6:49           ` Yuri Khan
2022-02-20 11:16             ` Jean Louis
2022-02-21  6:31               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-22 14:11                 ` Lumpers & Splitter Jean Louis
2022-02-27  1:01                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-20 23:12             ` [External] : Re: Would there be a drawback of using the same graphical toolkit on every platform? Drew Adams
2022-02-21  6:32               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-21 16:10                 ` Drew Adams
2022-02-27  1:15                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-22 14:12                 ` Lumpers & Splitter Jean Louis
2022-02-27  0:55                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-20 11:09           ` [External] : Re: Would there be a drawback of using the same graphical toolkit on every platform? Jean Louis
2022-02-21  6:28             ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-21  6:50               ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-22 14:24                 ` Jean Louis
2022-02-27  1:02                   ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-22 14:22               ` Jean Louis
2022-02-27  1:09                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-27  1:10                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-27  1:12                 ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor
2022-02-20 10:59         ` Jean Louis
2022-02-20 10:55       ` Jean Louis
2022-02-27  1:22         ` Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor

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