From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#64692: Better descriptions of Cons Cells and Dotted Notation with real-life syntax Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 13:54:13 +0300 Message-ID: <83pm4p7ane.fsf@gnu.org> References: Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="36174"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 64692-done@debbugs.gnu.org To: uzibalqa Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 18 12:54:21 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qLiLV-0009Cp-Br for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2023 12:54:21 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qLiLE-00034y-Tq; Tue, 18 Jul 2023 06:54:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qLiLD-00034Z-OX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2023 06:54:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qLiLD-0004UM-F3 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2023 06:54:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qLiLC-0005iE-Ai for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2023 06:54:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:54:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 64692 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 64692-done@debbugs.gnu.org id=D64692.168967763821947 (code D ref 64692); Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:54:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 64692-done) by debbugs.gnu.org; 18 Jul 2023 10:53:58 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51657 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qLiL8-0005hu-GZ for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2023 06:53:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:33492) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1qLiL4-0005hg-Ht for 64692-done@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 18 Jul 2023 06:53:55 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qLiKw-0004Ph-QM; Tue, 18 Jul 2023 06:53:46 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=MWftMlb8776PHQ3aF+RxcRgYhQ1GqgR/nhhPyRosTqw=; b=SORWdHbzrbbu sqm9OSlcKIfy3y8IAT8/aXMcBmh3ZoUo1ajkvIBLG1ek/yjTCv+D4wJD2nG1/fjFgz2i2WztP8Aov sJZ7Vluc7BCEab5I9QIHUBOlVo8Msln+J73h4R6OhPe7R1EQYSha+lpTYoLzwOF5Bqg75t8Ci/1OK J4a9JiccOfiDw+q9AHS6dgwkb1Mvy8RyFeWWCwaDqFg+WAsQVo8QUAivq4QVx4C6zasdTLWrpN7bO d+hPxygcy4jS2VxeKHRVqSH+RLLQhE6eC/XvGG7NrYe07raRwOFWJyP8kROsEVv6qTmGNT8x47PPr 4fiSbMJ9lTS1L0vjrcS2dw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qLiKw-0008HY-3a; Tue, 18 Jul 2023 06:53:46 -0400 In-Reply-To: (bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:265436 Archived-At: > Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2023 20:17:19 +0000 > From: uzibalqa via "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, > the Swiss army knife of text editors" > > Have been looking at the documentation of menu-item described as > > (menu-item item-name real-binding . item-property-list) > > This requires a good understanding of Cons Cells and Dotted Notation. > But I do not see a serious attempt to explain this. There's a node "Cons Cells" in the manual which explains that. The cons cells are so central to Emacs Lisp that it is impractical to explain them in each place where we use them in the manual, or even provide a cross-reference in each such place. > Whereas the Emacs > Lisp Reference Manual isn't designed as a tutorial with explanations, > the "Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp" simply refers to the > "Emacs Lisp Reference Manual" for understanding Cons Cells and Dotted Notation. > > This means that the "Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp" would benefit > from some real-life list syntax. Currently I find it short and far from real-life. The Introduction manual has a node "List diagrammed", to which you will get if you type "i cons cell RET", which describes that, with pictures. > In general, the construction of menus should be better described as it is currently > too theoretical in the reference. I disagree that it's "theoretical": it's quite practical, and even includes an example. So I don't think we have any problems in this area, and I'm therefore closing this bug.