From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Proposal to improve the nomenclature of scrolling directions Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:45:02 +0200 Message-ID: <83obj5y94x.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87a9uvv6ng.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87bof9s7cl.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <874nl0ov8g.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <20635.63115.874182.168553@winooski.ccs.neu.edu> <87liecnelf.fsf@spindle.srvr.nix> <83390k0wgy.fsf@gnu.org> <83sj8jz0rs.fsf@gnu.org> <83txsxykcp.fsf@gnu.org> <509E3607.6070500@gmx.at> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1352547906 22288 80.91.229.3 (10 Nov 2012 11:45:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 11:45:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: dan@haxney.org, rms@gnu.org, eli@barzilay.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, nix@esperi.org.uk, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, dmoncayo@gmail.com, stephen@xemacs.org To: martin rudalics Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Nov 10 12:45:14 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TX9Uv-0007JL-ML for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 12:45:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45228 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TX9Um-00041Y-AU for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 06:45:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41329) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TX9Uh-0003zw-G3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 06:45:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TX9Ue-00031y-E6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 06:44:59 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout23.012.net.il ([80.179.55.175]:37137) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TX9Ue-00031o-5q; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 06:44:56 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout23.012.net.il by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0MD900000SEQPO00@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:44:54 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout23.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0MD9000N2SMUP3C0@a-mtaout23.012.net.il>; Sat, 10 Nov 2012 13:44:54 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <509E3607.6070500@gmx.at> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 X-Received-From: 80.179.55.175 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:154792 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2012 12:09:59 +0100 > From: martin rudalics > CC: rms@gnu.org, dan@haxney.org, eli@barzilay.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, > nix@esperi.org.uk, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, dmoncayo@gmail.com, > stephen@xemacs.org > > > Meanwhile, it turned out that what's requested is something else: when > > the user or a Lisp program deliberately scrolls the text, leave point > > where it was, instead of moving it to be visible in the new contents > > of the window. This would need changes to window-scrolling code in > > window.c, to avoid moving point. > > Not necessarily. We can always move point lazily, that is, whenever it > is requested. That requires changes to window-scrolling functions, since currently they do move point, and they do it non-lazily. See window_scroll_pixel_based, where it calls SET_PT_BOTH etc. And what does "whenever it is requested" means, anyway, in practical terms? Those "other editors" that allow point to stay out of the window will scroll the display back to show point when some command is invoked that modifies the buffer text. Given that the modification commands don't require moving point, and C-v/M-v won't either (as this is the main justification for the feature we are discussing), what will? > As long as scrolling proceeds, we can pretend (visually) that it's > somewhere else. You are describing the kludgey solution (IIUC), whereas I'm suggesting a non-kludgey one.