From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Metaproblem, part 3 Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2014 10:01:30 +0200 Message-ID: <83oarh1a1x.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20141203193110.GF12748@thyrsus.com> <20141203215426.GA15791@thyrsus.com> <87ppbzplcw.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <83iohr48kr.fsf@gnu.org> <83388u4bps.fsf@gnu.org> <87egsejkrt.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87tx19jpqz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <20141206061807.GD14890@thyrsus.com> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417852905 25767 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 08:01:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 08:01:45 +0000 (UTC) Cc: eric@ericabrahamsen.net, stephen@xemacs.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: esr@thyrsus.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 09:01:37 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxAJ7-00055j-MH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 09:01:37 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53685 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxAJ6-0004tn-SK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 03:01:36 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41366) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxAIo-0004tf-AY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 03:01:23 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxAIj-0007ma-NI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 03:01:18 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout26.012.net.il ([80.179.55.182]:44852) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxAIj-0007mU-FF for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 03:01:13 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.mtaout26.012.net.il by mtaout26.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NG500700HFAEO00@mtaout26.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 10:00:04 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by mtaout26.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NG5006TDI84WW20@mtaout26.012.net.il>; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 10:00:04 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <20141206061807.GD14890@thyrsus.com> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 80.179.55.182 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179105 Archived-At: > Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 01:18:07 -0500 > From: "Eric S. Raymond" > Cc: Eric Abrahamsen , emacs-devel@gnu.org > > Stephen J. Turnbull : > > I see worries about "hostile" environment, and suggestions for making > > things more welcoming to new contributors. I have to ask, what do all > > you folks who are suggesting Emacs change its procedures think is in > > it for the mentors and core developers? > > A future for Emacs. That's a slogan. You are trying to sell that to us, but so far you've failed. > I'm trying to get the project moving in a direction that will lower > barriers to entry and attract new developers because I'm seriously > concerned that without such changes Emacs will ossify and dwindle into > irrelevance. A laudable goal, but doing so requires a good analysis of what are the barriers and how to lower them in practice. Your suggestions are a clear evidence that your analysis, if it was done, is incorrect and misguided, and as result you are trying to solve the wrong problems using methods that are dead wrong. The controversy that follows speaks volumes about that.