From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: text-quoting-style
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 11:42:31 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83oahr4xe0.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <55E013C0.1060106@cs.ucla.edu>
> Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, emacs-devel@gnu.org
> From: Paul Eggert <eggert@cs.ucla.edu>
> Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2015 00:54:40 -0700
>
> Eli Zaretskii wrote:
> >> That should suffice for Alan's preferences, as
> >> >he can run Emacs in an environment where curved quotes aren't displayable, e.g.,
> >> >with LC_ALL=C in the environment.
> > Telling people who don't see the Unicode quotes to run under LC_ALL=C
> > is not a good idea, for at least two reasons:
> >
> > . on platforms that honor LC_ALL in the environment, it will disable
> > many useful Emacs features unrelated to the issue at hand
>
> Can you give an example of such a feature? I'm not seeing the problem.
Anything that is decoded using locale-coding-system, or the default
values derived from it. If the real locale is nothing like C, I
expect the result to be strings full of raw bytes. If the real
locale's codeset is UTF-8, you might get away for a while (because
Emacs generally strives to DTRT with unibyte strings), but with any
other codeset the problem should be immediately clear. E.g., start
Emacs in that way in such a locale, and then look at exec-path: if
there are any non-ASCII file names there, I expect you to see raw
bytes.
Also, some of the guesswork within detect-coding stuff will do wrong
things.
> In environments that can't handle Unicode, perhaps Emacs disables some other
> features regardless of text quoting style. If so, it should be OK to disable
> curved quote display too.
Sorry, "disable" was not a good choice of words. I meant "break".
> > . on platforms that don't honor LC_ALL in the environment (Windows),
> > it won't have any effect
>
> My suggestion was meant for Alan's environment
But there are people who use other environments that expressed their
dislike of this change.
> The suggestion wasn't meant for Windows users, where I assume the
> problem is solved in a different way
There's no way I know of to run programs on Windows while setting the
locale to a non-default value for just that program. The only
possibility I'm aware of is for the program itself to call 'setlocale'
or its low-level Windows equivalents.
So if we want to remove text-quoting-style (I don't think we should),
we should at least provide an Emacs command-line option that would
cause Emacs itself call 'setlocale' at startup to switch to a C
locale. That would at least be portable, although the problems I
mentioned above with locale-coding-system derived values will still be
there.
The next logical step is to provide an option to turn off only these
quotes. But that's almost identical to what text-quoting-style
already provides, isn't it?
> and no suggestion is needed.
??? Of course it's needed. Unless we would like to tell those users
to get lost.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-08-28 8:42 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 64+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-08-28 2:03 text-quoting-style Stefan Monnier
2015-08-28 5:22 ` text-quoting-style David Kastrup
2015-08-28 7:06 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-08-28 7:37 ` text-quoting-style Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 7:54 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-08-28 8:42 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2015-08-28 14:39 ` text-quoting-style Yuri Khan
2015-08-28 14:49 ` text-quoting-style Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 15:00 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-08-28 15:31 ` text-quoting-style Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 15:39 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-08-28 15:48 ` text-quoting-style Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 7:29 ` text-quoting-style Eli Zaretskii
2015-08-28 16:42 ` text-quoting-style Stefan Monnier
2015-08-28 17:25 ` text-quoting-style Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-28 17:48 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-08-28 18:28 ` text-quoting-style Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-29 14:54 ` text-quoting-style Stefan Monnier
2015-08-29 15:59 ` text-quoting-style Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-30 1:59 ` text-quoting-style Stefan Monnier
2015-08-30 13:16 ` text-quoting-style Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-31 1:30 ` text-quoting-style Stefan Monnier
2015-08-31 6:29 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-08-31 20:13 ` text-quoting-style Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-31 21:29 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-09-01 12:47 ` text-quoting-style Alan Mackenzie
2015-09-01 16:27 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-09-01 17:07 ` text-quoting-style David Kastrup
2015-09-01 18:35 ` text-quoting-style Alan Mackenzie
2015-09-01 23:58 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-09-02 9:09 ` text-quoting-style Alan Mackenzie
2015-09-02 15:13 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-09-01 18:44 ` text-quoting-style Eli Zaretskii
2015-09-01 19:08 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-09-01 13:46 ` text-quoting-style David Kastrup
2015-09-01 16:28 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-09-01 17:08 ` text-quoting-style David Kastrup
2015-09-01 17:34 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-09-01 18:30 ` text-quoting-style David Kastrup
2015-09-02 0:07 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-09-02 0:27 ` text-quoting-style David Kastrup
2015-09-02 15:35 ` text-quoting-style Richard Stallman
2015-08-31 20:01 ` text-quoting-style Alan Mackenzie
2015-09-01 3:31 ` text-quoting-style Stefan Monnier
2015-09-01 9:28 ` text-quoting-style Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-01 10:53 ` text-quoting-style Oleh Krehel
2015-09-01 13:03 ` text-quoting-style Alan Mackenzie
2015-09-01 16:46 ` text-quoting-style Stefan Monnier
2015-09-01 20:41 ` text-quoting-style Bastien
2015-09-01 23:47 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-09-02 0:18 ` text-quoting-style David Kastrup
2015-09-02 0:35 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-09-02 0:53 ` text-quoting-style David Kastrup
2015-09-02 6:57 ` text-quoting-style Bastien
2015-09-02 15:17 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
2015-09-02 15:36 ` text-quoting-style Dmitry Gutov
2015-09-02 15:41 ` text-quoting-style Bastien Guerry
2015-09-01 22:55 ` text-quoting-style Richard Stallman
2015-09-02 9:05 ` text-quoting-style Alan Mackenzie
2015-08-31 16:10 ` text-quoting-style N. Jackson
2015-08-31 17:31 ` text-quoting-style Stefan Monnier
2015-09-02 19:34 ` text-quoting-style N. Jackson
2015-09-03 15:29 ` text-quoting-style raman
2015-08-31 6:15 ` text-quoting-style Paul Eggert
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