From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#40774: Error messages shouldn't be hidden when the user is idle Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 21:42:21 +0200 Message-ID: <83o85kl2aq.fsf@gnu.org> References: <837dy7e3wr.fsf@gnu.org> <-ZmNQQ07JD7L0I5EpXolv4t1UhWBGc4SN0dkJml3cLbBjO6ucAMUzAqsI9Ca69xO_hzlMLfaLs6bY9vq8GAR24RUGu1LZqVoVkXhiJcFgtg=@protonmail.com> <835zdre31u.fsf@gnu.org> <87v9lpluez.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <874koxwi1t.fsf@gnus.org> <86pmqa51cz.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87bl1uojxd.fsf@gnus.org> <86czmakaem.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87tufmnuz6.fsf@gnus.org> <86bl1uyt8f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87r1aocf5p.fsf@gnus.org> <83czm7xozh.fsf@gnu.org> <86wnkerjgt.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <8335n2x3w5.fsf@gnu.org> <865yrtiqb6.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83wnk9mwmx.fsf@gnu.org> <86v8ztfuga.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <831r2gmox3.fsf@gnu.org> <86sfuwnxtv.fsf@mail.linkov.net> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30415"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 40774@debbugs.gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, ndame@protonmail.com To: Juri Linkov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Dec 13 20:43:14 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mwrE6-0007Yv-L4 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 20:43:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37610 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mwrE5-0008Fw-ID for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 14:43:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:40752) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mwrDy-0008D0-EM for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 13 Dec 2021 14:43:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:45345) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mwrDy-0000q8-5B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; 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Mon, 13 Dec 2021 14:42:26 -0500 In-Reply-To: <86sfuwnxtv.fsf@mail.linkov.net> (message from Juri Linkov on Mon, 13 Dec 2021 20:50:36 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:222345 Archived-At: > From: Juri Linkov > Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 40774@debbugs.gnu.org, ndame@protonmail.com > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2021 20:50:36 +0200 > > > Isn't there some Lisp-visible effect of that, like that the echo-area > > will appear empty after the assignment? If so, then the > > clear-message-function was previously running with the echo-area > > buffer nil, but now it won't. > > clear-message-function is not intended to do anything with the echo-area. > Its purpose is to notify a subscriber that the message is going to be cleared, > so the subscriber can e.g. clear the message from the minibuffer, etc. > When the subscriber needs to affect the echo-area, it's the purpose > of the proposed return value not to clear the echo-area when the subscriber > asks so via the return value. So there will be some effect of this reordering, if some clear-message-function does something that you say it shouldn't. > > I gave an example of how using this for that purpose could be a > > problem, and you responded only to that example. But the problem that > > bothers me is much more general, and you are silent about that larger > > problem. > > > > I'm asking once again: aren't we trying to use echo-area messages or > > minibuffer messages displayed in the mini-window for a job that they > > weren't intended to do: showing large amounts of messages at the same > > time? > > Sorry, I still don't understand what do you mean. What large amounts > of messages? At what the same time? This is completely unclear. > Maybe if you give an example, this could help to understand. This whole discussion started from a request to be able to accumulate messages in the echo-area so that the user who is away could see them all when he/she comes back from whatever took him/her away. There could be quite a lot of messages accumulated during that period, and the request was to leave them all on display. For which you proposed to use clear-message-function in a way that doesn't actually clear them. Is the above an accurate description and summary of what is being proposed here? If so, is it now clear what kind of job I think display of echo-area messages was never designed to support?