From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Suppressing native compilation (short and long term) Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2022 21:43:33 +0300 Message-ID: <83o7uuyskq.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87bkqxf1ij.fsf@tethera.net> <8335c9dkyf.fsf@gnu.org> <83tu4odez7.fsf@gnu.org> <871qrrpkgx.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <834jwnbi6c.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtafnun5.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <83sfk6ahty.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgeem8iq.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> <83wn9iyvaw.fsf@gnu.org> <87ill2m6gt.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24315"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, david@tethera.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, akrl@sdf.org To: Rob Browning Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 02 20:45:10 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1of3xd-0006AC-OZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 20:45:09 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33036 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1of3xc-0006hz-La for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 14:45:08 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56758) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1of3wF-0005L5-Tx for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 14:43:43 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:60822) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1of3wE-000896-IE; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 14:43:42 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=NawU9mHm5pXRCIw6nDxUaLQY7J1G+rc+AZJjgz6k//k=; b=hlY1oQPhzJhl h2dSKVB4/m+nWdq5A5kgQPwLNf3EmirmkXLiEZtj9FQ6F9hTRwojl4B6Hk07ZbLWiZUBKf7H9vzeW SCznw/vttNY5+6CpnP1Hw6IYkqYJRpFTJh+ozVay6IDyu7W9v5Fre3WnZwR7zj2UvLYiYmQD5EyRt sr2mdfo5MCZzkMQACWUrcv1rL4MQf0J5MHJyXOT9+Dk1sNpMW+YyHo0nYDIexY3P2ftmbOIYgHXLC gylarsYNlhjZWrljNJdAQp7r0kN9Vi9K6RaIRmEpzNojC19NgCFyH5LN8RF3kzLdNHV6WAGUt6zQb eYxrs8GcwB0exHSwFfU43w==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=4951 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1of3wD-0006f2-0l; Sun, 02 Oct 2022 14:43:41 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87ill2m6gt.fsf@trouble.defaultvalue.org> (message from Rob Browning on Sun, 02 Oct 2022 13:21:54 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:296683 Archived-At: > From: Rob Browning > Cc: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, david@tethera.net, emacs-devel@gnu.org, > akrl@sdf.org > Date: Sun, 02 Oct 2022 13:21:54 -0500 > > Eli Zaretskii writes: > > > But Emacs should not "crash" if the *.el files aren't available, it > > should simply refuse to load any *.eln files and load the *.elc files > > instead. That produces many warnings, of course, but I hope your > > users don't consider that "crashing". > > I believe it was *crashing*. I can't recall if that one was a segfault, > or something a bit less drastic, but I'll try to remember to track it > down later. If it's a real crash, I'd appreciate bug reports, TIA. > > It isn't a bug, but intended behavior. If we want to remove this > > dependency, some non-trivial ideas about reworking the current load > > procedure should emerge. I don't thin we have any such ideas at this > > time. > > OK, so we should consider that a hard dependency now, i.e. the emacs-el > package can't be optional anymore, at least not on architectures where > we can enable native compilation, and so probably just "everywhere" for > simplicity, if nothing else. More accurately, emacs-el cannot be optional when the installed Emacs supports native compilation. Emacs can still be built without native compilation, and I presume those of your users who want the minimal possible package will want that, since it removes several significant dependencies, like libgccjit itself. When Emacs is built without native compilation, it can work without the *.el files.