From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: emacs-29 acd462b0306: ; Improve the use-package manual Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2022 09:09:11 +0200 Message-ID: <83o7sav2lk.fsf@gnu.org> References: <167059642832.4265.15913417645926264658@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> <20221209143348.961DEC0E4CA@vcs2.savannah.gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="34818"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: stefankangas@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, johnw@newartisans.com To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 11 08:10:06 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1p4GTO-0008ph-8l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 11 Dec 2022 08:10:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p4GSb-0003Jr-9o; Sun, 11 Dec 2022 02:09:17 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p4GSZ-0003JI-6h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 11 Dec 2022 02:09:15 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p4GSY-0002DR-OB; Sun, 11 Dec 2022 02:09:14 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=+9UtfPCugGsr8VVy1gdOygLFrCCuftm2l6pOZf8ROFg=; b=nQxyCrbI+cad CcaiPLUcgL08TMvnUp1z44NeeyT6f9RDQzyLjHTYTsj25y2yZyoHn5zO0ofZWamu8k3y55QW3Zqn5 pNMf3h474h/c3renpsEBr05ANWUtKY19J3DGZDWca4ocaHRFxvDSrkE013guCjMfBCGwIewZrO3bs ihGQd9ZoPRE66HWeWlHOu97Cd2eQ/0+V6SMWaKWAepPKMfSL05g7BHkCKu5CwlQyZEKVA+NfDXA5m lhkx62GWIOiN/h6fE/gzCUS+l2JSV0vOBMGffp72v50fUHMN99TwQDOj4dpedAIlOUYWFjcUs76Gb tLGVrv3fqNCgaWhFQFVILg==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p4GSY-0003Nh-5J; Sun, 11 Dec 2022 02:09:14 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Sat, 10 Dec 2022 17:01:13 -0500) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:301143 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, Eli Zaretskii , John Wiegley > > Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2022 17:01:13 -0500 > > >> I think this part of `use-package` is a result of its having been > >> designed before things like `package.el` became common practice (the > >> main effect of which (in this respect) has been to make `;;;###autoload` > >> cookies usable in all packages without any extra work on the package's > >> author's side). > > > > Agreed. Another thing is that `use-package' also tries hard to be > > package manager agnostic, and that also shows in places. I wonder if > > that's somehow also connected to the above. > > Im not sufficiently familiar with all the package managers out there, > but my impression is that it shouldn't make much difference in > this respect. But please don't ignore the use case of someone installing packages manually, or from places that don't support package.el's methods. It could be just a bunch of Lisp under site-lisp. For example, some programs come with Emacs interface packages that they install under site-lisp; examples include ID Utils, Guile, etc. IOW, package.el doesn't solve all the aspects of managing unbundled Lisp libraries for Emacs.