From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs,gmane.emacs.orgmode Subject: bug#65734: [BUG] kill-whole-line on folded subtrees [9.6.8 (release_9.6.8-3-g21171d @ /home/w/usr/emacs/0/29/0/lisp/org/)] Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 18:39:50 +0200 Message-ID: <83o7dtm9bd.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87il8pao4l.fsf@whxvd.name> <87tts8vrpb.fsf@localhost> <83cyyw4of7.fsf@gnu.org> <875y4ovct9.fsf@localhost> <875y04yq9s.fsf@localhost> <875y02y0da.fsf@localhost> <87frz6w2zt.fsf@localhost> <83cyu9nyea.fsf@gnu.org> <87sf35pcds.fsf@localhost> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28141"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 65734@debbugs.gnu.org, yantar92@posteo.net, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, manikulin@gmail.com, iota@whxvd.name To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jan 10 17:41:11 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rNbdf-00078T-7u for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 17:41:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNbdY-0001Rn-AF; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:41:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNbdX-0001Rf-52 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:41:03 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNbdW-0008UP-TX for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:41:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rNbdV-0004Gh-I7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:41:01 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 16:41:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 65734 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 65734-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B65734.170490482116348 (code B ref 65734); Wed, 10 Jan 2024 16:41:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 65734) by debbugs.gnu.org; 10 Jan 2024 16:40:21 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42639 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rNbcq-0004Fb-OA for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:40:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:35282) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rNbco-0004FL-0D for 65734@debbugs.gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:40:18 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNbcj-0007u2-Ce; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:40:13 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=t0+YVmcICd+6DmTQPLJcWVGUG1uGbaKjyDJAbyEbNSM=; b=YtYHfSv5gDTY 6/DrGfr50dxGAVisZhKYFwiUSId7AQGtk37zdGLdI+KyCN6S2lG1hppmKoAgNzv4QQyPo7xeieHce vmukzpxBpegelQNa4mVbsYTCyUjQhnA+r84l0M9v4S2ZxUEY8OCaHEv5rAgFJiLJcBthlWQs7t/Ki p6kRY5ShRj/29RDCJLihAdlUh9px7+0XaPttr6vand8TMQjz5Y0WvQ2IdJA2hRSoVS/oKCX5TGUtU GNu72dwn8jMEwISp0HJOWPnRzd8gK0QlhRyNZvaeMTnyoBwT7dkBoCdjUMC5521Bpr0PBHYTdWUen 8+k/2V/Ry9CzcHMoW2ZTZg==; In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:26:08 -0500) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:277777 gmane.emacs.orgmode:158973 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, > 65734@debbugs.gnu.org, manikulin@gmail.com, iota@whxvd.name > Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:26:08 -0500 > > >> I said that remapping widely-used keys to commands that behave > >> significantly differently places a non-trivial burden on users, > >> especially on those who use the remapping mode relatively rarely. > > > > Sure. From which I concluded that Org mode should avoid remapping > > I don't think that's what it means. It means that it depends on what is > the end-user-visible effect. If the remapped version of the command > "does the same" conceptually, then it's OK (even more so if the > non-remapped version of the command ends up misbehaving). Yes. From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:700:3204::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms8.migadu.com with LMTPS id wI1jA77InmXiJQAAkFu2QA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 17:41:34 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:403:58f0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2.migadu.com with LMTPS id gO14N73InmVvQAEAe85BDQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 17:41:34 +0100 X-Envelope-To: larch@yhetil.org Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=YtYHfSv5; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1704904893; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=t0+YVmcICd+6DmTQPLJcWVGUG1uGbaKjyDJAbyEbNSM=; b=gdDo7kyxVpC1zwGmwAAIru30jKL15EhxE2Pk/La0DC/TRbQ92VPAnyNKMJZHgrIaQELq5W wp98unoHo2rN2QB61ir13mDxGEX9lNvdY68Mys5SUprgZU93Njyb/U6UqhHgjTWMR1PCxz KGK6U19tTs7SQhDUhCaK53Gf0UDlAKim9gnrWxwFPpR1vUiuxO1aQ30VQjaIa8WSkFGXf8 L2yr1tHamUJ81wq2eQX/nJF7RLY8qDbmb+hzK1zlxUmTOqZyQsr4f1wcNDLrpm5XlUrAEz /WM57VNfzezU8i5H6FE+eC3bFQ/nO4SSvA91/3wDSI49LMiQ0yJSjxyVde7bwA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1704904893; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=bG92I/P3+iqpvJr3vx7Hs3c2pG9/rAFrR88Zcouktxfu4LbAWQs+MwpSO+TlKGxoK5ju9R NeXHwtXijylCslvisGG6AxhrNU+r+6PTP90pm7Z7a+wakjr7zSaNzELcLPwAxi0lhAaNSO wQOw8cIpzeiUtkvWS52dj2oRjkJP9lsENAmn8bnoL/RD1EqB5uway6x6eJhL3WfsHQ6Tcd VoyZcfQShXe+3RPFJI1iEMcP/DfUamudsS+8itSRE4GoCfmJ3kikgqsW9wz1DOr7/b1Sol 66MnfLqnDzbuds9GXFdcklq6/4o+bqoukZnFZFOSODNMgCSc4rTmQ+y3oZG1Ug== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=YtYHfSv5; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 815BA5F3C9 for ; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 17:41:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNbcn-0001Ei-1l; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:40:17 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNbck-0001EL-9O for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:40:14 -0500 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rNbcj-0007u2-Ce; Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:40:13 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=t0+YVmcICd+6DmTQPLJcWVGUG1uGbaKjyDJAbyEbNSM=; b=YtYHfSv5gDTY 6/DrGfr50dxGAVisZhKYFwiUSId7AQGtk37zdGLdI+KyCN6S2lG1hppmKoAgNzv4QQyPo7xeieHce vmukzpxBpegelQNa4mVbsYTCyUjQhnA+r84l0M9v4S2ZxUEY8OCaHEv5rAgFJiLJcBthlWQs7t/Ki p6kRY5ShRj/29RDCJLihAdlUh9px7+0XaPttr6vand8TMQjz5Y0WvQ2IdJA2hRSoVS/oKCX5TGUtU GNu72dwn8jMEwISp0HJOWPnRzd8gK0QlhRyNZvaeMTnyoBwT7dkBoCdjUMC5521Bpr0PBHYTdWUen 8+k/2V/Ry9CzcHMoW2ZTZg==; Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 18:39:50 +0200 Message-Id: <83o7dtm9bd.fsf@gnu.org> From: Eli Zaretskii To: Stefan Monnier Cc: yantar92@posteo.net, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, 65734@debbugs.gnu.org, manikulin@gmail.com, iota@whxvd.name In-Reply-To: (message from Stefan Monnier on Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:26:08 -0500) Subject: Re: bug#65734: [BUG] kill-whole-line on folded subtrees [9.6.8 (release_9.6.8-3-g21171d @ /home/w/usr/emacs/0/29/0/lisp/org/)] References: <87il8pao4l.fsf@whxvd.name> <87tts8vrpb.fsf@localhost> <83cyyw4of7.fsf@gnu.org> <875y4ovct9.fsf@localhost> <875y04yq9s.fsf@localhost> <875y02y0da.fsf@localhost> <87frz6w2zt.fsf@localhost> <83cyu9nyea.fsf@gnu.org> <87sf35pcds.fsf@localhost> X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -10.04 X-Spam-Score: -10.04 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 815BA5F3C9 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx11.migadu.com X-TUID: m5+qcNpDMo8w > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, > 65734@debbugs.gnu.org, manikulin@gmail.com, iota@whxvd.name > Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2024 11:26:08 -0500 > > >> I said that remapping widely-used keys to commands that behave > >> significantly differently places a non-trivial burden on users, > >> especially on those who use the remapping mode relatively rarely. > > > > Sure. From which I concluded that Org mode should avoid remapping > > I don't think that's what it means. It means that it depends on what is > the end-user-visible effect. If the remapped version of the command > "does the same" conceptually, then it's OK (even more so if the > non-remapped version of the command ends up misbehaving). Yes.