From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:33:48 +0300 Message-ID: <83mxv0je2b.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83fx0slhxn.fsf@gnu.org> <83pqzwjkn9.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276367659 19178 80.91.229.12 (12 Jun 2010 18:34:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 18:34:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 12 20:34:18 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONVX5-0001u0-E2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 20:34:16 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33176 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONVWy-0004Mh-09 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:34:08 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=34573 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONVWn-0004I1-Ri for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:34:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONVWg-00057u-8h for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:33:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:42093) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONVWg-00057i-0A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:33:50 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L3W00100ZHPGG00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:33:48 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.88.125]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L3W00KQTZKB0IB0@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:33:48 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125831 Archived-At: > From: Lennart Borgman > Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 18:18:18 +0200 > Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, dak@gnu.org, cloos@jhcloos.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > > I think the default should be that cursor keys (and keys like page > up/down) should move visually. You are talking as a typical L2R user, as in that case visual and logical order are identical. For users of R2L scripts, what you suggest is a disaster. If cursor motion is visual by default, one cannot even mark text by holding Shift and moving point with the arrow keys. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. Without logical-order motion keys, Emacs (and every other editor of similar sophistication) is much less useful.