From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: "Óscar Fuentes" <ofv@wanadoo.es>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: base
Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2010 06:10:34 +0300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83mxsam5lh.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <877hjefll8.fsf@telefonica.net>
> From: Óscar Fuentes <ofv@wanadoo.es>
> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 23:06:59 +0200
>
> I will not be so foolish to argue with you about what you had in mind at
> the time, but it looked like "I want to obtain the necessary knowledge
> to *decide* what is the most effective way of working with bzr for me."
> A good answer for that sort of request is pointing to a document
> explaining the foundations of the tool, from which everything else
> derives.
That wasn't the answer I was expecting. I expected to see several
possible workflows with some analysis of their merits and demerits.
There's no need to know how a repository stores its info for that.
> >> http://www.newartisans.com/blog_files/git.from.bottom.up.php
> >
> > Once again, this is internals, not something users should need to
> > grasp to use the tool effectively.
>
> You can use git effectively (for some reasonable definition of
> effectiveness) without knowing those details. Knowing them helps a lot,
> though. And they are not internal details, for the same reason that the
> point, the mark, etc are not internal details for the Emacs user,
> although you can use Emacs without knowing them.
Mark and point _are_ internal details. Most users don't have a clue
about their implementation, not even about the fact that their API is
a function (as opposed to a variable, for instance). What users are
told is some "model" of mark and point, and the model actually has
more to do with _what_ these do than how they do it.
> > IOW, a "mental model" is rules of the game, they have nothing to do
> > with the under the hood machinery that actually makes the game tick.
>
> That document explains, precisely, the rules of the game, i.e. the model
> that every git implementation must follow.
I meant the rules of the game for the user, not for the
implementation. Users should not be bothered by implementation
details.
> > I have no idea what is the underlying model in Bazaar, and I don't
> > really care how complex it is, as long as its UI is simple enough for
> > me to build my own mental model. And as long as the UI is simple
> > enough, I see no reason to change the underlying model.
>
> And if a merge causes unexpected results, what would you do? Blame the
> UI?
I'd say there's a bug that needs to be fixed.
> > I can also tell you that after spending a year studying the display
> > engine of Emacs, I think nothing can ever seem complex to me ;-).
> > What I did learn during this year is that complex models are not
> > necessarily bad or ugly or not extensible: look what I was able to do
> > with the display engine without changing anything in its basic
> > architecture and design.
>
> I guess that most part of that year was consumed by the study of the
> *implementation* of the display engine, not its model (unless you
> learned the model by reading the implementation.)
Of course! because I needed to _extend_ the display engine. But as a
bzr user, I do not need to extend it, so I shouldn't need to bother
about such details.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2010-08-26 3:10 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 105+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2010-08-22 12:06 base Alan Mackenzie
2010-08-22 12:20 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-22 13:01 ` base Alan Mackenzie
2010-08-22 12:50 ` base Teemu Likonen
2010-08-22 13:20 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-23 10:38 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-23 11:03 ` base Leo
2010-08-23 12:56 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-24 4:32 ` base Richard Stallman
2010-08-24 6:01 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-24 7:22 ` base Leo
2010-08-24 8:29 ` base Andreas Schwab
2010-08-24 8:34 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-24 9:10 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-24 10:03 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 13:39 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-24 14:05 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-24 15:00 ` base Andreas Schwab
2010-08-24 16:14 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 12:32 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-24 12:51 ` base Leo
2010-08-24 13:39 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 14:25 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-24 16:18 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 14:37 ` base David Kastrup
2010-08-24 16:22 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 16:38 ` base David Kastrup
2010-08-24 17:22 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 17:35 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-24 17:45 ` base Frank Schmitt
2010-08-25 4:33 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 6:38 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 8:48 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 9:02 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 13:17 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 18:12 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 20:34 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-25 20:43 ` base Bernardo Barros
2010-08-25 20:55 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-24 18:00 ` base Leo
2010-08-24 19:04 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-24 23:44 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-24 23:48 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-25 0:19 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-25 3:13 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 3:44 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-25 5:46 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 8:15 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 9:35 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-25 10:43 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-25 15:34 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 11:21 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 13:13 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-25 15:11 ` base Harald Hanche-Olsen
2010-08-25 19:08 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 19:07 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-25 21:06 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-26 3:10 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2010-08-26 3:27 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-26 3:29 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-26 5:37 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 6:29 ` base Leo
2010-08-26 8:23 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-26 9:16 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 12:25 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-26 12:35 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 13:27 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-26 13:49 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 14:42 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-26 15:11 ` base David Robinow
2010-08-26 15:50 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-26 15:28 ` base David Kastrup
2010-08-27 5:33 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-27 13:25 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-28 15:18 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-26 11:01 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-26 17:08 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-27 13:03 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-27 13:52 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-27 14:25 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-27 15:25 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-28 16:25 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-28 17:32 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-28 18:58 ` base Leo
2010-08-28 19:58 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-28 22:51 ` base Leo
2010-08-28 19:16 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-28 20:00 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-29 12:21 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-26 18:09 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-25 16:09 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-25 18:51 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 10:25 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-26 11:26 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-26 11:52 ` base Leo
2010-08-27 5:43 ` base Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-08-27 6:57 ` base Eli Zaretskii
2010-08-27 7:06 ` base David Kastrup
2010-08-27 13:16 ` base Óscar Fuentes
2010-08-25 7:38 ` base Leo
2010-08-25 7:41 ` base Juanma Barranquero
2010-08-25 13:23 ` base Teemu Likonen
2010-08-25 9:07 ` base Uday S Reddy
2010-08-24 14:09 ` base Miles Bader
2010-08-24 14:13 ` base Miles Bader
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=83mxsam5lh.fsf@gnu.org \
--to=eliz@gnu.org \
--cc=emacs-devel@gnu.org \
--cc=ofv@wanadoo.es \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.