From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Still unable to build trunk Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 19:00:13 +0200 Message-ID: <83mxmrzhb6.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87y66fv2d3.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4D388F7F.20708@swipnet.se> <87r5c7jk5m.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <4D39EF9C.1050804@cs.ucla.edu> <4D3A8666.4070609@cs.ucla.edu> <877hdvd49f.fsf@meyering.net> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1295802014 7523 80.91.229.12 (23 Jan 2011 17:00:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 17:00:14 +0000 (UTC) Cc: cyd@stupidchicken.com, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, jan.h.d@swipnet.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jim Meyering Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Jan 23 18:00:09 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ph3IP-0004Do-G2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 18:00:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43957 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ph3IO-0004zA-Ou for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 12:00:08 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=42578 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ph3IE-0004y9-7Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 11:59:59 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ph3IC-0007J7-Pq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 11:59:58 -0500 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:65372) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ph3IC-0007Ih-Ff for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 11:59:56 -0500 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0LFH00J00IXPKU00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 18:59:54 +0200 (IST) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.46.39]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0LFH00JGFJ7S1460@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sun, 23 Jan 2011 18:59:54 +0200 (IST) In-reply-to: <877hdvd49f.fsf@meyering.net> X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:134864 Archived-At: > From: Jim Meyering > Cc: Paul Eggert , cyd@stupidchicken.com, jan.h.d@swipnet.se, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 16:33:00 +0100 > > In many gnulib-using projects, we address two types of > users who build from source: > - those who build from a distribution tarball > - those who build from upstream clone/checkout > > Obviously, when building from a tarball, there are only the usual, minimal > requirements specified in the GCS. E.g., use of autoconf, automake, makeinfo, > etc. are not required. > > However, those who build from the latest sources, as checked out > from version control must have tools that meet certain standards. > [...] > and an automated check for the presence and minimal-acceptable versions > of build-related tools (this is from bootstrap.conf): > > # Build prerequisites > buildreq="\ > autoconf 2.62 > automake 1.11.1 > autopoint - > bison - > gettext 0.17 > git 1.4.4 > gperf - > gzip - > makeinfo - > patch - > perl 5.5 > rsync - > tar - > xz - > " It sounds harsh to me to ask every one who builds out of VCS to have to climb such a steep curve. If you read the reports in this forum, you will see that many of those who do that are no more knowledgeable in build tools than those who build distribution tarballs. A person who installs bzr does not necessarily know about autotools. She is not necessarily a "developer" of Emacs, just someone who wants the latest and the greatest. Even core Emacs maintainers have trouble with these prerequisites, for any number of reasons (e.g., Autoconf installed on fencepost is too old for what Paul added to the Emacs tree, so until the GNU admins upgrade that at my request, I cannot build the current tree). Imagine what will happen to people with less experience and grey hair, especially if they do that on systems they don't own.