From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net>
Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org
Subject: bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 19:41:13 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <83mwv83ydi.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87621w72th.fsf@rosalinde.fritz.box>
> From: Stephen Berman <stephen.berman@gmx.net>
> Cc: 13690@debbugs.gnu.org
> Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 14:36:58 +0100
>
> > scroll-conservatively affects _any_ movement within a buffer, not just
> > to scrolling commands.
>
> I think this should be made clear in the documentation. In the Emacs
> Lisp manual, scroll-conservatively is only mentioned in the context of
> textual scrolling and there's no indication that it has wider scope.
> The variable's doc string doesn't say it only affects movement by
> scrolling, but given its name and the manual discussion, this is a
> plausible assumption, so its scope should also be made clear here. A
> less misleading name would also help, e.g. restore-point-conservatively.
A name change is out of question at this point, I think, as this
option is very old. As for documentation, feel free to send patches
that clarify this.
Note that the applicability of scroll-* options to movement that
doesn't necessarily look like "scrolling" is not limited to
scroll-conservatively. E.g., scroll-margin comes to mind.
> > This is by popular demand; you can find my
> > questions about this and answers by others a year or two ago in the
> > archives. E.g., scroll-conservatively affects commands such as
> > goto-char, even if you move far away in the buffer.
>
> Do you mean the thread starting here:
> http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2010-06/msg01011.html and
> continued in bug#6631?
That one, but also others. For a recent example, see
http://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=13055 (although that is
about scroll-margin, not scroll-conservatively).
> >> But again, as a user, I'd expect this only if what I'm doing
> >> recognizably involves scrolling, which Info-up does not, from the user's
> >> point of view.
> >
> > Alas, other users' expectations are different.
>
> I didn't see anything to that effect in the thread cited above; did I
> miss it or were such expectations expressed elsewhere? Again, I'd be
> quite surprised if anyone really expects and prefers the current effect
> of scroll-conservatively on Info-up.
My witnesses are twofold:
. No one spoke about this except Juanma, and no one said that
scroll-conservatively _must_ be confined to scroll commands.
. Since those changes were made, 2.5 years ago, I heard _zero_
complaints about this behavior; you are the first one. By
contrast, before that, when Emacs would sometimes recenter even
when scroll-conservatively was set to a huge number, there were
quite a few complaints and bug reports about that.
(I myself don't use this option, so Emacs always re-centers for me.)
> *** lisp/info.el 2013-02-01 16:46:46 +0000
> --- lisp/info.el 2013-02-13 13:25:51 +0000
> ***************
> *** 2246,2252 ****
> nil t))
> (progn (beginning-of-line) (if (looking-at "^\\* ") (forward-char 2)))
> (goto-char p)
> ! (Info-restore-point Info-history)))))
>
> (defun Info-history-back ()
> "Go back in the history to the last node visited."
> --- 2246,2255 ----
> nil t))
> (progn (beginning-of-line) (if (looking-at "^\\* ") (forward-char 2)))
> (goto-char p)
> ! (Info-restore-point Info-history))))
> ! ;; If scroll-conservatively is non-zero, display as much of the
> ! ;; superior node above the target line as possible (bug#13690).
> ! (recenter))
I don't mind, but let's hear from others. In any case, I think this
re-centering should be conditioned on:
. scroll-conservatively being less than 100 (people who set it to
large values don't want Emacs to recenter, ever)
. scroll-conservatively being non-nil
. perhaps also scroll-margin being zero, because otherwise you get
several lines of context before point
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-02-13 17:41 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 15+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-02-11 23:24 bug#13690: 24.3.50; scroll-conservatively and Info-up Stephen Berman
2013-02-12 16:14 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-02-12 22:00 ` Stephen Berman
2013-02-13 4:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-02-13 13:36 ` Stephen Berman
2013-02-13 17:41 ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2013-02-13 19:02 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-02-13 21:48 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-02-14 1:51 ` Dmitry Gutov
2013-02-14 5:16 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-02-13 23:18 ` Stephen Berman
2013-02-14 5:12 ` Eli Zaretskii
2013-02-14 11:32 ` Stephen Berman
2020-08-25 11:31 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2020-08-25 18:02 ` Stephen Berman
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