* bug#30457: 26.0.91; bidi-display-reordering makes navigation around melpa/archive-contents slow
@ 2018-02-14 16:49 Aaron Jensen
2018-02-14 18:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Aaron Jensen @ 2018-02-14 16:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: 30457
In this thread, Eli asked for a real world repro where
bidi-display-reordering slows down emacs:
https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/7wezb4/how_can_i_make_line_rendering_faster/
I found that today, so I wanted to report it.
Download: https://melpa.org/packages/archive-contents
emacs -Q archive-contents
Press and hold C-n (I have a very fast key repeat rate)
On my machine, it takes about 13 seconds to get to the bottom of the
window (where it first scrolls, not the bottom of the buffer, I don't
have the patience for that).
(setq bidi-display-reordering nil)
Press and hold C-n
On my machine, it takes about 1 second to get to the bottom of the
window.
This a profile when it is `t`:
- command-execute 5643 99%
- call-interactively 5643 99%
- funcall-interactively 5157 91%
- next-line 4880 86%
- line-move 4880 86%
line-move-visual 2439 43%
+ execute-extended-command 160 2%
+ minibuffer-complete 117 2%
+ byte-code 486 8%
+ ... 3 0%
I hope that this is a compelling enough use-case. I don't believe I have
a use-case for it to be `t` right now, so I'll be setting it to `nil` by
default in my config, but I wanted to report this because of the
aforementioned thread.
Thanks!
In GNU Emacs 26.0.91 (build 1, x86_64-apple-darwin17.3.0, NS appkit-1561.20 Version 10.13.2 (Build 17C205))
of 2018-01-13 built on aaron-mbt.local
Repository revision: 5dd0e5c54d29e81c07798a124295c8c3f016d621
Windowing system distributor 'Apple', version 10.3.1561
Recent messages:
/Users/aaronjensen/.emacs.d/.cache/work.org
Decrypting /Users/aaronjensen/Dropbox (Personal)/Family Notes/health.org.gpg...done
Error running timer: (error "Agenda file ~/Dropbox (Personal)/Family Notes/health.org.gpg is not in Org mode")
Appointment reminders enabled (no diary file found)
Added 5 events for today
Quit [2 times]
user-error: Previous command was not an evil-paste: keyboard-quit
<nil> <down-mouse-1> is undefined
<nil> <mouse-1> is undefined
Quit [2 times]
Configured using:
'configure --disable-dependency-tracking --disable-silent-rules
--enable-locallisppath=/usr/local/share/emacs/site-lisp
--infodir=/usr/local/Cellar/emacs-plus/HEAD-5dd0e5c/share/info/emacs
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--without-dbus --with-gnutls --with-imagemagick --with-modules
--with-rsvg --with-ns --disable-ns-self-contained'
Configured features:
JPEG RSVG IMAGEMAGICK NOTIFY ACL GNUTLS LIBXML2 ZLIB TOOLKIT_SCROLL_BARS
NS MODULES LCMS2
Important settings:
value of $LANG: en_US.UTF-8
locale-coding-system: utf-8-unix
Major mode: Fundamental
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anzu-mode: t
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ivy-mode: t
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hybrid-mode: t
which-key-mode: t
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evil-mode: t
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spacemacs-leader-override-mode: t
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diff-auto-refine-mode: t
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xterm-mouse-mode: t
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shell-dirtrack-mode: t
ido-vertical-mode: t
global-page-break-lines-mode: t
global-eldoc-mode: t
electric-indent-mode: t
mouse-wheel-mode: t
menu-bar-mode: t
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auto-composition-mode: t
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auto-compression-mode: t
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#30457: 26.0.91; bidi-display-reordering makes navigation around melpa/archive-contents slow
2018-02-14 16:49 bug#30457: 26.0.91; bidi-display-reordering makes navigation around melpa/archive-contents slow Aaron Jensen
@ 2018-02-14 18:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-14 19:22 ` Aaron Jensen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-02-14 18:40 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Aaron Jensen; +Cc: 30457
> From: Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 08:49:58 -0800
>
> In this thread, Eli asked for a real world repro where
> bidi-display-reordering slows down emacs:
> https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/7wezb4/how_can_i_make_line_rendering_faster/
>
> I found that today, so I wanted to report it.
>
> Download: https://melpa.org/packages/archive-contents
>
> emacs -Q archive-contents
>
> Press and hold C-n (I have a very fast key repeat rate)
>
> On my machine, it takes about 13 seconds to get to the bottom of the
> window (where it first scrolls, not the bottom of the buffer, I don't
> have the patience for that).
>
> (setq bidi-display-reordering nil)
>
> Press and hold C-n
>
> On my machine, it takes about 1 second to get to the bottom of the
> window.
It's a 870K line with multi-level parentheses. As already mentioned
there, the BPA implementation that is part of the bidi reordering
makes this sluggish due to the many parentheses in such a long line.
(However, it's nowhere near 13 sec on my box. And going several lines
in one go, as in "C-u 20 C-n", makes it even faster.)
> I hope that this is a compelling enough use-case. I don't believe I have
> a use-case for it to be `t` right now, so I'll be setting it to `nil` by
> default in my config
Beware: the code which is used when bidi-display-reordering is nil is
unsupported since Emacs 24, so you are on your own when using it. I
urge you to reconsider.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#30457: 26.0.91; bidi-display-reordering makes navigation around melpa/archive-contents slow
2018-02-14 18:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2018-02-14 19:22 ` Aaron Jensen
2018-02-14 19:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-15 1:48 ` Noam Postavsky
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Aaron Jensen @ 2018-02-14 19:22 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 30457
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> It's a 870K line with multi-level parentheses. As already mentioned
> there, the BPA implementation that is part of the bidi reordering
> makes this sluggish due to the many parentheses in such a long line.
Yes, it's also a real use-case that I encountered today while trying
to figure out why a package was getting installed (I'm sure there's a
better way to do this... but that's not the point). It's not just line
scrolling, it's most any manipulation/navigation of the buffer. Emacs
has definitely sped up in the last year and I'm quite pleased with
that, but this is still one area that it's rather sluggish. I do
experience sluggishness in other instances as well with long lines,
but this is the example I have today.
> (However, it's nowhere near 13 sec on my box.
Are you on a mac? It seems we're slower than linux still... Is there a
way to check to see if I was compiled w/ optimizations? I used the
emacs-plus recipe on homebrew.
> And going several lines
> in one go, as in "C-u 20 C-n", makes it even faster.)
Sure, but everything has a latency and these sort of workaround don't
really solve the overall feel problem. It feels like I'm working over
ssh to a server in another country and the difference when bidi is
disabled is incredible.
> Beware: the code which is used when bidi-display-reordering is nil is
> unsupported since Emacs 24, so you are on your own when using it. I
> urge you to reconsider.
I didn't know this, I'm not sure what it means in practice. Perhaps
I'll turn it back to t for now and just have that in my bag of tricks
if I encounter a file that has this problem.
Thanks,
Aaron
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#30457: 26.0.91; bidi-display-reordering makes navigation around melpa/archive-contents slow
2018-02-14 19:22 ` Aaron Jensen
@ 2018-02-14 19:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-15 18:49 ` Aaron Jensen
2018-02-15 1:48 ` Noam Postavsky
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-02-14 19:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Aaron Jensen; +Cc: 30457
> From: Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2018 11:22:37 -0800
> Cc: 30457@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > (However, it's nowhere near 13 sec on my box.
>
> Are you on a mac?
No, Windows.
> Is there a way to check to see if I was compiled w/ optimizations?
What is your value of system-configuration-options?
> > And going several lines
> > in one go, as in "C-u 20 C-n", makes it even faster.)
>
> Sure, but everything has a latency and these sort of workaround don't
> really solve the overall feel problem. It feels like I'm working over
> ssh to a server in another country and the difference when bidi is
> disabled is incredible.
Only at the beginning of the file. Try the same near the end, and you
will see that both are very slow: a single C-n or C-p takes about 2
sec with bidi-display-reordering at nil, and 4 to 5 sec with non-nil.
Not a very spectacular speedup.
> > Beware: the code which is used when bidi-display-reordering is nil is
> > unsupported since Emacs 24, so you are on your own when using it. I
> > urge you to reconsider.
>
> I didn't know this, I'm not sure what it means in practice.
It means that we kept the non-reordering code for testing purposes
only, so it is very rarely executed, and thus less reliable than the
rest of Emacs.
> Perhaps I'll turn it back to t for now and just have that in my bag
> of tricks if I encounter a file that has this problem.
Yes, that's what I recommend.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#30457: 26.0.91; bidi-display-reordering makes navigation around melpa/archive-contents slow
2018-02-14 19:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2018-02-15 18:49 ` Aaron Jensen
2018-02-15 21:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Aaron Jensen @ 2018-02-15 18:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: 30457
Recapturing thread that accidentally went private...
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> wrote:
> > So is this bug a WONTFIX then?
> It isn't WONTFIX, I just don't know how to make the BPA implementation
> faster with such long lines and deeply nested parentheses. It already
> includes all the optimizations I could think of. But maybe someone
> else will find a way to optimize it more.
I'm only just now learning about BPA, so I apologize if this is a
silly question, but would it be any faster to scan a buffer and
determine that there are no rtl characters so parentheses matching is
unnecessary?
> > And/or does it fall into the general "emacs is not super optimized
> > for long lines" thing?
> It does, sort of. At least near the end of the buffer you clearly see
> that bidi-display-reordering has a much smaller effect, in relative
> terms.
Yeah, I wasn't aware that the end of the buffer had more slowness, but
that's good to know.
Thanks,
Aaron
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#30457: 26.0.91; bidi-display-reordering makes navigation around melpa/archive-contents slow
2018-02-15 18:49 ` Aaron Jensen
@ 2018-02-15 21:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2018-02-15 21:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Aaron Jensen; +Cc: 30457
> From: Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@gmail.com>
> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2018 10:49:23 -0800
> Cc: 30457@debbugs.gnu.org
>
> > It isn't WONTFIX, I just don't know how to make the BPA implementation
> > faster with such long lines and deeply nested parentheses. It already
> > includes all the optimizations I could think of. But maybe someone
> > else will find a way to optimize it more.
>
> I'm only just now learning about BPA, so I apologize if this is a
> silly question, but would it be any faster to scan a buffer and
> determine that there are no rtl characters so parentheses matching is
> unnecessary?
Scanning the entire buffer could be faster only for small buffers.
But with a very large buffer we'd be scanning a lot more than needed,
because redisplay tries very hard not to examine much more of the
buffer than is needed to show one window-full. And due to the way the
display engine is designed, it doesn't lend itself easily to caching
stuff, so you'd need to scan the entire buffer every redisplay cycle,
e.g., after each C-n.
The current code in bidi_find_bracket_pairs scans only as much as
needed (which unfortunately could be quite a lot for deeply nested
parens in a long line). And it already includes an optimization for
strictly left-to-right text inside the parens, something that it
detects as part of the scan.
> > It does, sort of. At least near the end of the buffer you clearly see
> > that bidi-display-reordering has a much smaller effect, in relative
> > terms.
>
> Yeah, I wasn't aware that the end of the buffer had more slowness, but
> that's good to know.
The farther you are from the beginning of line, the more buffer
positions Emacs needs to scan to determine where to put point after
C-n or C-p. That's because the layout calculations needed for
determining coordinates of each buffer position must start from some
known anchor, and currently the only anchor is the line beginning,
where we sure the X coordinate is zero. So Emacs needs to go back to
the line beginning (something it can do very fast), and then come back
(much slower) one character at a time, until it hits the buffer
position with the right coordinate. That coming back is the main
reason why doing this near the end of the line is so much slower than
near the beginning.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#30457: 26.0.91; bidi-display-reordering makes navigation around melpa/archive-contents slow
2018-02-14 19:22 ` Aaron Jensen
2018-02-14 19:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
@ 2018-02-15 1:48 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-02-15 3:07 ` Aaron Jensen
1 sibling, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Noam Postavsky @ 2018-02-15 1:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Aaron Jensen; +Cc: 30457
Aaron Jensen <aaronjensen@gmail.com> writes:
> I didn't know this, I'm not sure what it means in practice. Perhaps
> I'll turn it back to t for now and just have that in my bag of tricks
> if I encounter a file that has this problem.
Another workaround/trick for long-lines in cases where the line in
question is a big lisp expression
M-: (pp-buffer) RET
(but only in Emacs 26; before that lisp indentation is quadratic in the
size of the expression, cf Bug#25122)
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* bug#30457: 26.0.91; bidi-display-reordering makes navigation around melpa/archive-contents slow
2018-02-15 1:48 ` Noam Postavsky
@ 2018-02-15 3:07 ` Aaron Jensen
0 siblings, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Aaron Jensen @ 2018-02-15 3:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Noam Postavsky; +Cc: 30457
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Noam Postavsky <npostavs@gmail.com> wrote:
> Another workaround/trick for long-lines in cases where the line in
> question is a big lisp expression
>
> M-: (pp-buffer) RET
>
> (but only in Emacs 26; before that lisp indentation is quadratic in the
> size of the expression, cf Bug#25122)
That's a nice trick, thanks!
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2018-02-15 21:47 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2018-02-14 16:49 bug#30457: 26.0.91; bidi-display-reordering makes navigation around melpa/archive-contents slow Aaron Jensen
2018-02-14 18:40 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-14 19:22 ` Aaron Jensen
2018-02-14 19:51 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-15 18:49 ` Aaron Jensen
2018-02-15 21:47 ` Eli Zaretskii
2018-02-15 1:48 ` Noam Postavsky
2018-02-15 3:07 ` Aaron Jensen
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