all messages for Emacs-related lists mirrored at yhetil.org
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Ctrl-[ ?
Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2019 18:42:50 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <83muisnkw5.fsf@gnu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <B54DF626-4B27-4C52-9CBD-B09348470D7E@traduction-libre.org> (message from Jean-Christophe Helary on Sat, 8 Jun 2019 22:54:17 +0900)

> From: Jean-Christophe Helary <jean.christophe.helary@traduction-libre.org>
> Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 22:54:17 +0900
> 
> > We have an enormously complex piece of software on
> > our hands, and we have no better choice than going the "inconvenient"
> > ways when we want to rebind an unusual key.
> 
> In all honesty:
> 
> (define-key input-decode-map "\C-[" [C-left-bracket])
> (define-key global-map [C-left-bracket] 'myfunction)
> 
> is not inconvenient at all. What is inconvenient is the discovery process.

AFAIU, that discovery process, and the fact that you need 2 lines of
code rather than just one, was what was referred to as "inconvenient".

> Knowing what I know about emacs (which is above the casual user) and even with the willingness to go through the manual, it would have been (it *has* been) impossible for me to find that solution.

FWIW, I consider this not to be a catastrophe, far from it.  Emacs is
an enormously complex package, so it's impractical to require that
everything in it is immediately discoverable and easily customizable.
Especially when what you want to do is something as unusual as the
case in point.  I still hear every day one or two things I didn't know
about Emacs, after all those years of using, customizing, and hacking
it.  We could (and do) add stuff to the manuals and the doc strings,
but there's limit to how this could improve discoverability.  We
shouldn't expect, let alone demand, unreachable goals.

> Now, what I'd love to know is what are the other "unusual" keys, because as a group, they deserve a few more lines in the manual.

I suggest a careful reading of keymap.c and keyboard.c, the answer to
this question is there.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2019-06-08 15:42 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 107+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2019-06-06  4:49 Ctrl-[ ? Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-06  7:26 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-06  8:13   ` Andreas Schwab
2019-06-06 10:12   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-06 12:37     ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-06 13:02       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-06 13:28         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-06 12:44     ` Mattias Engdegård
2019-06-06 13:01       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-06 13:25         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-06 14:35           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-07  6:21             ` Marcin Borkowski
2019-06-07  8:34             ` joakim
2019-06-06 13:26         ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-06-06 13:32           ` Juanma Barranquero
2019-06-06 14:37           ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-06 15:01             ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-06 15:33             ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-06-06 17:28               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-06 17:33                 ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-06-06 17:48                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-06 18:34                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-06 18:48                       ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-06-06 19:18                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-07 15:02                           ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-06-07 19:44                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-07 21:01                               ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2019-06-07 23:48                               ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-08  6:23                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-12  8:08                               ` Søren Pilgård
2019-06-12  8:56                                 ` Ergus
2019-06-06 18:55                       ` Noam Postavsky
2019-06-10  0:23             ` Stefan Kangas
2019-06-10  0:42               ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-10 16:42               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-11 15:36                 ` Michael Welsh Duggan
2019-06-11 15:55                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-11 16:31                   ` Yuri Khan
2019-06-12 12:22                   ` Stefan Kangas
2019-06-12 12:14                 ` Stefan Kangas
2019-06-12 13:12               ` Alan Mackenzie
2019-06-12 13:38                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-06 13:28         ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-06 14:00         ` Drew Adams
2019-06-06 12:58   ` Stefan Monnier
2019-06-06 12:58 ` Ralph Seichter
2019-06-06 13:42 ` tomas
2019-06-06 14:08   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-06 14:25     ` Stefan Monnier
2019-06-06 15:27       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-06 18:29         ` Noam Postavsky
2019-06-06 23:08           ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-06 23:26             ` Noam Postavsky
2019-06-06 23:35               ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-07  6:24               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-07 11:43                 ` Noam Postavsky
2019-06-07 13:16                   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-07 22:04       ` Stefan Monnier
2019-06-08  6:22         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-08 14:14           ` Stefan Monnier
2019-06-07  3:36 ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-07  4:30   ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-07  4:43     ` Emanuel Berg via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-07  5:04       ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-07  6:15     ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-07  8:04       ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-07  8:44         ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-07 13:19           ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-07 13:54             ` Noam Postavsky
2019-06-07 14:23               ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-07 15:17                 ` Noam Postavsky
2019-06-07 13:45           ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-07 14:20             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-07 18:20               ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-07 20:16                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-07 16:30             ` tomas
2019-06-08  0:05               ` Francis Belliveau
2019-06-08  0:31                 ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-08  8:44                   ` tomas
2019-06-08 11:48                     ` 조성빈 via help-gnu-emacs
2019-06-08 11:56                       ` tomas
2019-06-08 13:06                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-08 13:30                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-08 13:54                         ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-08 14:03                           ` tomas
2019-06-08 14:22                             ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-08 15:42                           ` Eli Zaretskii [this message]
2019-06-09  0:52                             ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-09  6:19                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-09  6:51                                 ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2019-06-08 13:58                         ` tomas
2019-06-08 19:40                           ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-08 20:09                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2019-06-08 20:28                             ` tomas
2019-06-08 21:03                   ` Francis Belliveau
2019-06-08 21:38                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-09  0:25                       ` Stefan Monnier
2019-06-09  1:24                         ` Óscar Fuentes
2019-06-18 22:25                           ` Stefan Monnier
2019-06-11 23:05                         ` Francis Belliveau
2019-06-14  6:51                           ` Stefan Monnier
2019-06-14 12:06                             ` [offtopic] " Van L
2019-06-14 12:24                               ` tomas
2019-06-15  9:12                                 ` Van L
2019-06-15  9:44                                   ` tomas
2019-06-15 12:38                                     ` Van L
2019-06-09  6:37                     ` Eli Zaretskii

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=83muisnkw5.fsf@gnu.org \
    --to=eliz@gnu.org \
    --cc=help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.