From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: Concern about new binding. Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2021 19:02:18 +0200 Message-ID: <83mtwl3x0l.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20210202134950.vybbpf3iewbymfjo.ref@Ergus> <20210202134950.vybbpf3iewbymfjo@Ergus> <87zh0mmr54.fsf@gmail.com> <87tuqunw6q.fsf@telefonica.net> <835z3a5miu.fsf@gnu.org> <87lfc6nvlt.fsf@telefonica.net> <8335ye5lhj.fsf@gnu.org> <83y2g54yd0.fsf@gnu.org> <4F87E2EB-B8B7-48C8-AD9E-FE39365742CA@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="22430"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 03 18:12:57 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l7Li4-0005gT-Dp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 18:12:56 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43780 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l7Li3-0003o1-AR for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 12:12:55 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:34042) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l7LXq-0001zJ-TA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 12:02:22 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:46995) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l7LXp-0000PJ-AX; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 12:02:22 -0500 Original-Received: from 84.94.185.95.cable.012.net.il ([84.94.185.95]:4792 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1l7LXn-0003k7-FZ; Wed, 03 Feb 2021 12:02:20 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Drew Adams on Wed, 3 Feb 2021 16:03:32 +0000) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:263813 Archived-At: > From: Drew Adams > CC: "ofv@wanadoo.es" , > "emacs-devel@gnu.org" > > Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2021 16:03:32 +0000 > > > IME, there's no "we" in volunteer based Free Software projects such as > > this one. Saying "we should do this-and-that" or "this-and-that should > > be everyone's job" has only one consequence: that no one will do it. > > Currently, someone _is_ doing something. > Someone is making changes that range > beyond the needs/request of particular > bug/improvement reported. The prerogative to decide whether some solution is or isn't within the needs of a problem belongs to the maintainers. If you want to be part of this decision-making process, please volunteer to join the maintenance team. Otherwise, you will have to trust us to make those decisions. > That's what should be fixed, IMO. Let's > stop doing that. Instead of just making > some such wide-ranging change, start a > discussion on emacs-devel. I'm okay with someone -- anyone -- starting a discussion on emacs-devel about anything being discussed on the bug list. Just don't expect Lars and myself to do it every time -- or even most of the time. We have too much on our plates to afford doing this additional job, which we consider much less important than actually working on the issues. > I suggested instead that those _actually_ > participating in a given bug thread monitor > themselves - that bug discussion - and DTRT: > > 1. Don't just make a wider change. > 2. Do start a discussion on emacs-devel > about the wider question. Once again, these decisions are our prerogative. Your suggestions are noted, but are unlikely to be implemented, unless someone volunteers to start these discussions when people think they should be started. This has been said already, time and again, so please stop reiterating the same unfair demands, and instead consider helping us more, especially where you are motivated to help -- in making more discussions on emacs-devel. > > But if you believe that just saying "we should" will get the thing > > done, then you have said that already, and so we should simply wait for > > it to happen, because "we all" will do it. Right? > > IMO, it starts by #1: those who've been > making wide changes in bug threads refrain > from doing that. We won't! Your demands are out of line. We are here to develop Emacs, and we will continue doing that as best as we can, unless the community thinks we are doing harm, in which case the community should simply ask us to step down.