From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Help sought understanding shorthands wrt modules/packages Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 12:40:45 +0200 Message-ID: <83mt9dfvbm.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83sfj5g081.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11071"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: tomas@tuxteam.de Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Oct 30 11:41:47 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1op5lC-0002im-MW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 11:41:46 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1op5kY-0005ti-UT; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 06:41:06 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1op5kX-0005tN-8a for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 06:41:05 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1op5kW-0007Ta-G3; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 06:41:04 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=4pkzOdWrRTL3M51h9pKlmXEZn6m8KQoqbyiDNjcvl6I=; b=BxKuQazXhpYk aRA59xNUi15kg5nWxDsipyiA6wbavjomNo+1gTlLKHBo2Ofa4DM60XErqR8KCVwGEiQfOlmsFz4ks qMA4O9H4A/KAvyZN7eKTI5p7kqTFzRbtJ6q0UHLOrd+ChtTT6UI39evWiwx0mtd12CLbpCpYC3Sap lovRuc8+gplrAB2EaWGVymzoHTuTYdBJZYv+d1gbHr/JT4p6Y3kL4fu4zQNKczyqIYb8odLyX4xOg wAF12gur203x2NBuy2P81MCGJwceXchMmyZKs1ISxFIOPUQYjEG4HQ/zl2JKoDHtPKL+tYZ2blX9H R45T8Nqbi5Qk+YkiBtfSHw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1op5kV-0006Km-VB; Sun, 30 Oct 2022 06:41:04 -0400 In-Reply-To: (tomas@tuxteam.de) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:298800 Archived-At: > Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2022 10:14:10 +0100 > From: tomas@tuxteam.de > Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org > > > Before everyone starts presenting here that we made some nonsensical > > decision when we added shorthands, let me remind us that it was added > > to allow us to use packages like "s" (https://github.com/magnars/s.el), > > "f" (https://github.com/rejeep/f.el) and other similar ones, which use > > "problematic" function names. We wanted to be able to use packages > > which have dependencies of those, while at the same time providing > > reasonably-named aliases for them. (Gerd wasn't around back then, so > > he is excused, but the rest of us were here, so please let's not > > pretend those discussions never happened.) > > I don't know who you mean by "us". I'm not pretending anything. I do > know that discussion happened. Well, may I suggest that you re-read your message, then? "I had similar feelings" can be easily interpreted as saying that no one took such opinions seriously, or maybe that they were not discussed at all. Which is not what happened. People have short memories. A discussion that happened 2.5 years ago tends to be restarted for no good reason. You dwell here long enough to know that. So when you respond to a request from someone who wasn't here when those discussions happened, my recommendation is to mention those discussions, so that this one at least had a good chance of being a continuation of those ones, not a re-iterations of them. I'm sorry to be a bit blunt, but the level of noise on this list is unbearable. I urge everyone to please keep that in mind, and make an effort to lower the noise.