From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Stability of core packages (was: Not easy at all to upgrade :core packages like Eglot) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 21:34:03 +0300 Message-ID: <83mt337mck.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87a5zj2vfo.fsf@gmail.com> <83fs934pjf.fsf@gnu.org> <87wn2fk47y.fsf@posteo.net> <83sfd2g2ek.fsf@gnu.org> <875y9yfxrr.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1muefks.fsf@gmail.com> <834jpifizy.fsf@gnu.org> <83y1mue1qi.fsf@gnu.org> <83sfd2e01f.fsf@gnu.org> <1a5e5837-513b-84d8-3260-cdbf42b71267@gutov.dev> <83sfcz9rf2.fsf@gnu.org> <09a49ab9-ac72-36a9-3e68-9c633710eba7@gutov.dev> <83r0sh8i1q.fsf@gnu.org> <35638c9d-e13f-fad8-5f95-ea03d65d4aa2@gmail.com> <87a5z3izst.fsf@web.de> <83v8hr7qk9.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="30156"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: arne_bab@web.de, joaotavora@gmail.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jim Porter Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 19 20:34:22 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1ppCdK-0007fc-5g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 20:34:22 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppCct-0004Nr-8U; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:33:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppCcr-0004Nf-9c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:33:53 -0400 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppCcq-0008RS-RW; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:33:52 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-version:References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From: Date; bh=e+G+AEqEN5EqqVv7eGEPo1F/LacxHUE5aqYQ6Bc2kTU=; b=pZXp0yVmru4RhRX/i4Ev zN6sIrmIJ5N2De7pAF4UZ7hY0PiiZprPpbXBZ3wlUq3pjkNaWCm0+51MDaYyBVyLk80GRcWMMpQUH GoYiHCWN/epKC4Jp9BQxgLYfyvBFFmVYG/jjy5XHNysnnW7apGqCzIFNsVulziZNAz5rgF3shX4Kp q911e0T4p6+doR/6r0TMsbsaWuM/c3Yd2ktI5nSNIfLnIVD227ZbxYnoRd2LdZNxo+ImmVTJOjHw/ YicFlC05QMd2IiIOVU3r8Ho2v/Ax59auFAJ+Kj3iAJ9+tsxjOAUfp1/Wgwjl8qflqpuBpio4R2IaV Sv6tvPovIzlqLw==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ppCcq-0008MB-8y; Wed, 19 Apr 2023 14:33:52 -0400 In-Reply-To: (message from Jim Porter on Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:04:50 -0700) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:305454 Archived-At: > Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2023 11:04:50 -0700 > Cc: joaotavora@gmail.com, dmitry@gutov.dev, emacs-devel@gnu.org > From: Jim Porter > > On 4/19/2023 10:03 AM, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > Specifically, users of Emacs 28 and older, who had Eglot installed, > > and expect Eglot to be automatically updated upon Emacs startup > > whenever a new Eglot version is available, will now have their > > expectations broken after they upgrade to Emacs 29, because Eglot is > > now a built-in package, and package.el won't by default upgrade a > > built-in package. > > I have some thoughts on this but before I go further, I want to be sure > I understand the problem. How is the user upgrading their packages in > this scenario? I installed Eglot 1.14 on Emacs 28 and then tried loading > up Emacs 29. Then I did the following: > > 1. Add gnu-devel to 'package-archives' (this way, I can be sure there's > a newer Eglot to upgrade to in one of the archives) > 2. M-x list-packages > 3. U ;; package-menu-mark-upgrades > 4. x ;; package-menu-execute > > When Emacs tells me what packages it will upgrade, Eglot is in the list. > However, ERC (which is in ELPA, but I didn't install via package.el) is > *not* in the list. Isn't this the behavior we want?[1] AFAIU, this is not the scenario that João was bothered about. But I let him respond. But if this is the scenario, then there's no problem, AFAIU what you are saying. So what exactly would you like to add to this discussion?