From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: arrow keys vs. C-f/b/n/p Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:38:09 +0300 Message-ID: <83ljakjdv2.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87d3w2ncqs.fsf_-_@lola.goethe.zz> <87iq5py7xk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <83eigclgf0.fsf@gnu.org> <89C16A134A024399A06EFE296DC6916F@us.oracle.com> <83r5kcjkpp.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1276369186 23211 80.91.229.12 (12 Jun 2010 18:59:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 18:59:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: drew.adams@oracle.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 12 20:59:44 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONVvQ-0001jw-28 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 20:59:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:52928 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONVfL-0000fc-5z for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:42:47 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=58276 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ONVbR-0007cl-8s for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:42:42 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONVaw-0005kJ-FP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:38:15 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:43084) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ONVaw-0005k5-71 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 14:38:14 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0L3W00100ZQ4LD00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:38:10 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([77.127.88.125]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0L3W00KFDZRK0IC0@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Sat, 12 Jun 2010 21:38:09 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Solaris 10 (beta) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125834 Archived-At: > From: Lennart Borgman > Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2010 19:25:41 +0200 > Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org > > On Sat, Jun 12, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Drew Adams wrote: > > > > In fact, you might drop "logical" altogether - the word itself doesn't really > > help here. If you speak about the order of the chars in the buffer (as opposed > > to how they appear) I think that will be clear. > > > From what I read it seems to me that "logical" should mean "human > reading order", not the buffer character order. These two orders are identical. The reason is that people type text in the order they read it. "Logical order" just means we store text in the same order as it is read and typed. > I guess they are the same here, but that is an implementation detail No, it's not an implementation detail. Emacs stores text in files, and those files also use the logical order. As soon as text is saved on a file, the order of characters is not longer internal to Emacs. In using logical order, Emacs follows the other applications; doing that the other way around would mean the files created by Emacs are incompatible with other applications.