From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20466: 25.0.50; REGRESSION in `isearch-mode-map': is not translated to DEL Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 09:30:59 +0300 Message-ID: <83lhh8stb0.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83383hu3dn.fsf@gnu.org> Reply-To: Eli Zaretskii NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1430461944 21206 80.91.229.3 (1 May 2015 06:32:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 1 May 2015 06:32:24 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 20466@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri May 01 08:32:14 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Yo4Ue-0000n5-Q9 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 08:32:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46916 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yo4Ud-0003lp-Nv for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 02:32:11 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:38148) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yo4Ua-0003jG-JD for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 02:32:09 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yo4UW-0006tj-0Z for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 02:32:08 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:48081) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yo4UV-0006tf-UY for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 02:32:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yo4UV-0006lp-51 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 02:32:03 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 01 May 2015 06:32:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20466 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 20466-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20466.143046187125961 (code B ref 20466); Fri, 01 May 2015 06:32:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20466) by debbugs.gnu.org; 1 May 2015 06:31:11 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58056 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yo4Te-0006ke-EO for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 02:31:10 -0400 Original-Received: from mtaout22.012.net.il ([80.179.55.172]:36817) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Yo4TZ-0006k4-QN for 20466@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 02:31:07 -0400 Original-Received: from conversion-daemon.a-mtaout22.012.net.il by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) id <0NNN00800RE3LO00@a-mtaout22.012.net.il> for 20466@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 01 May 2015 09:30:59 +0300 (IDT) Original-Received: from HOME-C4E4A596F7 ([87.69.4.28]) by a-mtaout22.012.net.il (HyperSendmail v2007.08) with ESMTPA id <0NNN0089FRFM85A0@a-mtaout22.012.net.il>; Fri, 01 May 2015 09:30:58 +0300 (IDT) In-reply-to: X-012-Sender: halo1@inter.net.il X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:102313 Archived-At: > From: Stefan Monnier > Cc: Drew Adams , 20466@debbugs.gnu.org > Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 19:12:07 -0400 > > > The "why" part was answered by Artur, who pointed to the bug report > > which triggered that change. > [...] > > I learned long ago that if you want to change the binding of DEL, you > > had better changed the binding of Backspace accordingly at the same time, > > I strongly disagree here: following this kind of rule is what caused the > problem in the first place. No, following the rule would have prevented it. The user in question didn't customize both keys, he customized only DEL. > What you're basically saying is that we should give up on the > function-key-map binding which remaps `backspace' to DEL. No, I'm saying it's unreliable, in the sense that a user who wants to customize DEL cannot rely on Backspace continue doing what DEL does. We use stuff like function-key-map so that keys do what users expect, but only by default. Once users start customizing keys, they cannot expect Backspace to always behave like DEL, not with the function-key-map method, which gives an explicit rebinding priority (as it must). The root problem underlying this is that some keyboards have only DEL, some have only Backspace, and some have both. If we want both keys to always behave the same, we should treat them as the same key, all the time. I doubt if we want to do that, which leaves us with this dilemma that doesn't have a 100% reliable solution. > Clearly, this bug report shows that this remapping is harder to handle > right in the case of isearch-mode-map. > > I think The Right Way to handle it is to bind (in isearch-mode-map) > `backspace' to `undefined' (so it hides bindings in lower-precedence > maps, but still lets the function-key-map remapping take place). Whatever you do, my rule will always yield more reliable results.