From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Motif support Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2021 21:25:47 +0200 Message-ID: <83lf0cwif8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83fsqlzyxo.fsf@gnu.org> <837dbxzv6x.fsf@gnu.org> <83r1a4wnay.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28227"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: xenodasein@tutanota.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Arthur Miller Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 22 20:29:23 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n07Ig-0007CY-Lx for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 20:29:22 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38654 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n07Ie-0002XJ-TH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 14:29:20 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:52536) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n07FC-0006nj-Mg for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 14:25:47 -0500 Original-Received: from [2001:470:142:3::e] (port=53146 helo=fencepost.gnu.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n07FC-0004GL-8k; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 14:25:46 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=mQxxnQu6d7BPDZ42CG5gEeehuF5Dj9v7vcW4/+lH6tw=; b=FaD6zCZOZsY0 WatkTs3djifLRzQEIHaji4wCc1SQiysQzRKmeBtYRJ6lkWlzFya2qXsqCNJa0wNNEAprliQPvQuOX Doh7BTZhWjwtb8IJXcVa4+DRxS70E0OItQ0tmaqUpZUZyG5XguFKJBwrcmWM5M+RXRCwYGd4jcIcq OvEIxJEw/8lXAgf4xwO0unGakHxRnmFkQtb33Gb3pN3Cjvxapwp6Zcynxg/s7m6TB11X9gPMHPVjD hngsDt14Qw6eSywtYP0CZPlzRAUNbKC5NQ9EJKUjxUNIjIXuZZSfpsE2iuBvPA0Tjd5e1r3yp7JpQ 1qBccHc/cW1L6bq6rreugA==; Original-Received: from [87.69.77.57] (port=2482 helo=home-c4e4a596f7) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n07FC-0002yp-1e; Wed, 22 Dec 2021 14:25:46 -0500 In-Reply-To: (message from Arthur Miller on Wed, 22 Dec 2021 20:14:39 +0100) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:282824 Archived-At: > From: Arthur Miller > Cc: xenodasein@tutanota.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2021 20:14:39 +0100 > > >> Games usually do all GUI drawing themselves. > > > > So you are saying that so should we?? > I'm not devil's advocate nor your enemy Eli. I don't say Emacs should do > this or that because someone else is doing it, or just to say it. > > What I try to say is that it is possible to do gui on it's own. It's possible, sure. But why would we want to do that? We have enough work on our hands without that. > Menus, toolbar and scrollbar are not very hard to do without external > toolkit, and since this thread took up that Emacs talks to numerous toolkits, it > may be pointed out that doing own thing might be a simplification of the code > base. If you read this thread since its beginning, you have read the message where I explained that it won't simplify the code, because eventually you'd need to call the GUI APIs that are different for different platforms. > > Did you look at, for example, the MS-Windows back-end of the Cairo > > port to Windows? > > Not really. I am quite sure they need to talk to the OS at some point, but > that is different to rely on OS to render menus and buttons, or just low level > stuff to open a window or blit ssurfaces. I suggest that you look at the code, because the reality is quite different from what you think. The calls to Win32 APIs are all over the place there. > I am not trying to be devil't advocate, or annoying, I just believe that code > base would be easier to work and experiment with without so many different paths. If you can suggest reasonable practical ways of doing that, by all means go ahead. I didn't yet hear any such proposal in this discussion.