From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Eli Zaretskii Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#68246: 30.0.50; Add non-TS mode as extra parent of TS modes Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 22:27:44 +0200 Message-ID: <83le8qcpfj.fsf@gnu.org> References: <83a5phskd5.fsf@gnu.org> <83h6joqz0t.fsf@gnu.org> <834jfoq86m.fsf@gnu.org> <831qarrbjx.fsf@gnu.org> <87a5p84nlh.fsf@gmail.com> <83edekfldq.fsf@gnu.org> <83a5p6epcl.fsf@gnu.org> <4cda8b54-ede1-4fe3-b54d-7b6937453592@gutov.dev> <83sf2yctu9.fsf@gnu.org> Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="29652"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 68246@debbugs.gnu.org, casouri@gmail.com, joaotavora@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, stefankangas@gmail.com To: Dmitry Gutov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 15 21:29:21 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rPTaD-0007S5-Pr for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 21:29:21 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rPTZv-00060s-Vn; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:29:04 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rPTZu-00060V-D4 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:29:02 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:5::43]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rPTZu-00024M-4f for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:29:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rPTZu-0001uM-32 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:29:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Eli Zaretskii Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 20:29:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 68246 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs Original-Received: via spool by 68246-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B68246.17053504857248 (code B ref 68246); Mon, 15 Jan 2024 20:29:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 68246) by debbugs.gnu.org; 15 Jan 2024 20:28:05 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:47112 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rPTYz-0001sq-Cr for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:28:05 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:43836) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1rPTYw-0001sK-SJ for 68246@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:28:04 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rPTYr-00020Q-It; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:27:57 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=References:Subject:In-Reply-To:To:From:Date: mime-version; bh=xUsp/KhZrEIgQmEGqn98YWD/yq2g0C5XIQObowDKy2Q=; b=L8b/eOa8tR47 IBIdwvKRhQh9479XlROaFGXuKaxSImgn3cgnJPB1QiA8f/PDgmMPgBnal4qYA5IeZkHxcBC6zQ1L8 qrZvV8N5DJ6V+cpRhNwInHIhNuzgJ0wwyQX7Qt6ZwPm11jK7a05MK6QtM2iMpqFNIvevDToufeCw9 kcPfjAh8IFYqezH9L+W1tQkSasLl4OVHzfMTPoPbE+ccyrzfGR0KM5w2zmdkTGiFKIpP/Un4nh3Zd 9PeYjzRFsWbY+oqJyw4TJ5b8bHRtONKoYLNGhUXyChUBd7DBZbqueLeP1+7oG5houz9uZa6d8Rzx3 tc99w2AhSpcHSiHXJs0M9A==; In-Reply-To: (message from Dmitry Gutov on Mon, 15 Jan 2024 22:17:56 +0200) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:278304 Archived-At: > Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 22:17:56 +0200 > Cc: joaotavora@gmail.com, stefankangas@gmail.com, 68246@debbugs.gnu.org, > casouri@gmail.com, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca > From: Dmitry Gutov > > On 15/01/2024 20:52, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > > >> They are not catastrophic ones, however, and as such they won't be > >> critical in day-to-day usage (prompting fewer users to bother with > >> bug reports). > > > > Once again: we should try the simpler, light-weight solution before we > > go to more complex ones. > > A change in inheritance chain is a pretty heavy/complex solution in my book. Stefan's addition doesn't change the inheritance chain. > >> Nor we are quick to change our mind based on such feedback, as bug#61177 > >> and bug#61177 demonstrate. > > > > We are as quick as possible. You are welcome to step up as an Emacs > > maintainer and improve these aspects if you can. > > I didn't mean that the speed was the issue here. The bugs above are > closed as "wontfix", rather than remaining in-progress. Same answer. > > I think such a feature is unjustified by what we know about the > > problem. If we don't know enough, we will learn soon enough, and will > > then be in a position to make informed decisions, unlike now that we > > are arguing about issues we don't yet have enough experience about to > > be able to discuss usefully and effectively. > > It doesn't seem to me like that experiment is easy to reverse. If there are good reasons, we will. > And I'm not sure what is unclear about the problem, to require > additional data. Additional downsides, if any. If there are none, then we already have a solution that I consider satisfactory.